Monday, January 07, 2013

The Doctrine We Ignore


Heb.10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Ok, here is where we all need to check our preconceived theologies at the door and open our hearts to the truth of God’s Word. I have seen many exegetical gymnastics applied to these verses and others like them. It seems as if so many believers who strongly say they believe the Bible is literal, become wobbly legged when they enter these kinds of Scriptures. Hebrews chapter six is another such Scriptural neighborhood, but let us just deal with these for now.

Are these Scriptures addressing believers? Look at verse 32 thru 34 and it openly reveals the answer to that question. He is speaking with those who have been illuminated or awakened, and who know that they have an enduring substance in heaven. That could not be more clear. If we cannot agree on that than upon what can we agree? In chapter three the writer identifies those to whom he is writing and says, “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling…”. Again, very clear. The epistles are written to believers and the church at large.

Unpacking these verses correctly depends largely on who they were addressing. If that is not clearly established than all kinds of interpretive mischief becomes available. Those that adhere to once saved always saved, or eternal security surely are reticent to take these verses on their literal face value. In order to support their doctrine these verses cannot mean what they openly and literally seem to mean. And when you see Scriptures that openly teach that which is against your doctrine then your doctrine must be wrong. I used to be quite adept and conforming these verses into my own theology and doctrinal box.

Now before we go any further let us establish this fact. No one was born again and grafted into God’s family because he or she stopped sinning. Every sinner becomes a child of God by grace through faith alone. No amount of baptisms, no amount of communions, no amount of humanitarian works can even slant redemption in your favor. Christ paid the price in full, and only by faith in Jesus and His redemptive work can a sinner be saved. And since we did not enter into the kingdom of God by giving up any sins, we cannot exit the kingdom of God by sinning.

In the Church at Corinth it seems like some believers were receiving the Lord’s Supper unworthily, and the Scriptures indicate that some were dying prematurely. I mean that is a very serious sin, and yet nowhere does it say they had their salvation taken from them, or as is the evangelical colloquialism, “lost their salvation”. This is not about losing your salvation, but this is about rejecting the Christ. This is about openly denying your faith and denying your Redeemer. If indeed that is what is being taught here, would it not be important? And especially in these last days, would not a warning of this nature be not only appropriate, but even paramount? And just to be clear, this is not about losing and the regaining and losing and regaining your salvation depending upon what kind of week you had. Hebrews chapter six informs us about that kind of nonsense.

Heb.6: 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Again, the writer is speaking to those who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and that can only come through salvation. And who crucifies to themselves the Son of God afresh? Come on, it is those who were enlightened and have tasted the good word of God. So again, when the writer is teaching about forsaking and denying Christ, he is speaking to believers. This must be clearly understood or the entire theme is devoid of meaning and as some suggest only speaks to unbelievers. If that be the case than not only can we not take these passages literally, but when will unbelievers read them and heed? Never.

But this is a very profound warning. The phrase “sin willfully” is interesting since we all sin willfully. But this suggests someone who does not care anymore and begins to live a life with unbridled sin. Now that in and of itself is not apostasy, however when a believer’s life becomes so wild and so filled with transgressions of all kinds then the danger becomes real that the conscience can become so seared that the deceptions spirals down into apostasy, or an eventual rejection of Christ and the faith. I have seen it several times in my life where someone who showed fruit for years eventually walked away and proclaimed that they no longer believed in Christ anymore. That will send chills up your spine.

Think on these words: “trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing…”. Who is sanctified but a believer? This is why sin is so very dangerous since it can lead to outright apostasy, not because of the sin itself, but because the sin deceives, hardens, and leads to a renouncing of one’s faith. Paul teaches on this principle in Romans chapter eleven.

Rom.11: 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Even though this passage deals primarily with Israel and the Gentile church, the principle is quite evident. The faith that believes and follows Christ is not some ticket punch. It is a living, breathing faith which by God’s grace alone can be believed and received. And although I believe personal apostasy is rare, I also believe that ecclesiastical apostasy is rampant. But I also believe personal apsotasy is becoming less rare.

Ti.1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

What can we say about a person who professes Christ and yet lives anything but like a follower? Well that person is either in a backslidden condition or he has never been born again. Of course this verse uses the words abominable and reprobate so I must lean toward the view that they have never known Christ,. But let us not treat this entire subject as if we had it all neatly wrapped in a doctrinal bow. There have been denominations that have begun following Christ and slid into apostasy. The portions in Hebrews seem to indicate that is possible individually as well. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God when you may be without the redemption of Christ. That prospect is not addressed with any frequency today, and in most quarters it is not even alluded to.

But what of the end when we all must face the Creator? He has been so maligned and so made into little caricatures that man no longer even fears God. Eternity? We are so consumed with the temporal that eternity is now just a concept. And because many “orthodox” churches have taught eternal security with such conviction, and even showed contempt for any doctrine that would even question it, that I am afraid there may be many believers who really live spiritually careless lives for so long that they are not only ambivalent toward Christ, but they are actually against Christ by their thoughts and deeds. How can we rest on our doctrinal laurels and give such people an ounce of assurance, not just because of the way they live, but also because of how openly and forcefully the Scriptures indicate the eternal level of danger associated with such a life?

Charles Spurgeon, no tepid Arminian, once told His congregation that is was very dangerous to rely on your original conversion experience. He said we should always be turning from sin to Christ. And I would not only agree with that statement but I would also add that if you believe you had been born again, but if now you have no thirst or hunger for Christ, and if that void has led you further and further into a life of recklessness and wanton sinful practices, then I exhort you strongly to stop and immediately seek God through repentance before it may be too late.

What are we to say about the entertainment people call "church". What about all the different doctrines being spread today that soothe people's fallen consciences and give people divine assurance in this life and the life to come? How can we remain silent when damnable lies are being fed to sheep and goats alike and western believers are observably ambivilent towrd the things of Christ? Can we pin our eternal security phylacteries on our chests or grasp hold onto our election doctrines and thereby show a limited amount of concern that is void of the desperate passion that must accompany such a situation? Or should we give the deepest of concerns for those who have professed Christ but deny Him now in their lives?

Remember this sobering thought. If indeed it is possible to leave the faith you once espoused, by the teaching of the same Scripture it is also impossible to return once you leave. Let that sink in either for you or for someone you may know. And if this post makes me a n heretic, so be it. I have long ago rejected bowing to the doctrinally elite simply because I may elicit their ire. And when Scripture is clear about such a serious subject, and when it is not even dealt with in the church, then man’s ire should be the least of our worries.


michael said...

Rick I believe I will have a lot of comment on this subject.

I'd first say this one seems to have exegeted Psalm 50 very very well.

I'm on my IPhone using one finger so later on after responding to Cherie's excellent response to my inquiries on the Sheep and Goats thread I will bring up some things I like to coin as God's sense of humor albeit none of what is revealed by the verses are humorous to those involved.

mrs k said...

Since my heart is so... heavy and my thoughts a bit jumbled after reading this I'm not sure I can articulate a response. I want to try, though, in the hope that it might touch someone.

I can point to an "original conversion experience" at the age of 9. Looking back from the vantage point of over 50 years I know it was genuine. I know, too, that salvation is of God alone from beginning to end. I have done nothing to earn it. I never will.

Sadly, however, off and on through the decades I've had a foot in the "once saved, always saved" camp to my detriment. Please don't misunderstand me here. I believe my Jesus when He said no one will snatch His sheep from His hand.(cf. John 10:27-29) In light of these verses from Hebrews this is a great mystery. I don't seek to solve it. Only live it.

When this sheep wanders off, however, I believe not only my pride and my flesh run rampant but that in the back of my mind, perhaps subconsciously, I could point to a specific time when I "got saved." God, forgive me, I'm pretty sure that happens a lot.

Because, you see, if someone taught me over the years what it looks like, REALLY looks like, to work out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil.2:12) I wasn't paying attention. Only by the grace of God and the conviction of His Spirit did I come to realize this is a process. Not a onetime deal. I have a part in it. I have responsibilities too often shirked. A grievous mistake.

So these days my part looks mostly like this: "... to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin" (James 4:17). Always mindful of this: "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to EVERY man ACCORDING TO WHAT HE HAS DONE." (Rev. 22:12, emphasis mine)

Rick Frueh said...

Matt.24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Anonymous said...

Having been a fearful and very anxious person when I was first "saved", I was worried about the unpardonable sin. All these worrisome questions arose in my mind; even though I didn't believe I had actually ever committed it, the anxiety of being eternally saved kept drawing me back to the 'what if'?

I was also worried that my pastor didn't say the words while I was baptised, "In Jesus' Name". I kept asking my husband 'are you sure he said the Name?' because I was distracted going under in the water and couldn't remember what the pastor had spoken. Even though technically, the pastor would have said in Jesus' Name, my worrisome mind thought (in it's extreme legalistic way) that he may have suddenly become forgetful and might have added some weird name. Thank the Lord, today I am at peace knowing that I wanted to be baptised in His Wonderful Name and that was all that mattered.

So, that's how I was way back then. Fear struck me many times when sermons were made on the assurance of our salvation. The 'what ifs' just wouldn't let me go. I feared I might lose my salvation for no apparent reason; today I know how paranoid I was, but because of 'fear' due to the extreme legalism in our church, we couldn't grow out of our fears.

It took me years of receiving "Fear not" and believing in the verse which said that perfect love casts out fear. Faith should replace fear.

I think I understand pastor Frueh's points here, which is scriptural, and it is the Word of God; however, I'm still a bit confused as to how Satan can be so powerful that he can lure a believer to the point of losing their salvation.

I have lost 'church' and lost 'fellowship' but still don't want the world. I just want things to be right, and wish the Church could regroup and show a true fear of God, show humility, and I wish that the laiety would show respect to those clergy who have the responsibility for their sheep. However, I wish to see the day when pastors will treat the sheep as themselves, and shake off all cultural norms and live like a true disciple.

And women; women struggle with being submissive in this day and age. Preachers are afraid of offending women who are sometimes strong financial supporters and tithers, but women really need a good dose of scripture taught in the epistles. Women, in the New Testament, were known to be known as being particularly needing sharp rebuke. They were given specific commands, and warned of things; of course the men were specifically warned of things that men have weaknesses for, but women were also warned about their weaknesses. I sometimes fear I'm not behaving like a true daughter of our Father in heaven. In this society, it's really hard to find an moderate role. The high-achieving feminist lives in the church.

Sorry to go off topic. Back to salvation. I pray we all are never snatched from Jesus and that we rest in Him forever and ever, Amen!

michael said...

I wanted to touch on some of what I say is humorous about God towards the Devil/Satan although for those who are in his grip, there is nothing humorous about it.

To this question of "once" saved "always" saved. I want to point out something here I see in 1 Corinthians and what the Apostle wrote as instruction to those submitted to his Apostolic authority.

Mind you this is the Apostle who is known for "knowing" and being able to distinguish between the "power" of God and the "power" of Satan, see Acts 26:18. Peter had Satan in him and Jesus rebuked him!

Now consider something from these verses:

1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
1Co 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Now one must take into account the fact that God is "eternal" and Satan is a creature. Here we see the Spirit of the Lord directing His Apostle to have this Church group turn over one of their member's and I would ask, why not turn over with him his father's wife seeing she was a participate too, to Satan for the destruction of his flesh/sarx so that his "spirit/pneuma might be saved.

Huh? I thought Satan's job was to destroy us and see to it we spend eternity in the lake of fire prepared for him and his angels?

You got to imagine the unwillingness of Satan to follow that command seeing this destruction saves the guy?

For me I can see the irony in there and the humor, can you?

michael said...

Now for another one of these unusual yet ironic and humorous passages of Scripture that seems so to me about Satan and godly authority God gives to men:

1Ti 1:18 This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
1Ti 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,
1Ti 1:20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

The word that makes no sense at all I suppose to Satan is this one. Here he is known as the "chief" blasphemer and accuser. He is dead set on getting people to blaspheme God's Good and Wonderful Name! Yet here we learn this Apostle is turning over two guys to him so "he", the chief blasphemer and accuser of God and man, can teach them "not" to blaspheme! Oh that must make Satan mad, don't you think?

michael said...

Finally I wanted to touch on Hebrews 6:3. This verse has been of great puzzlement to me. But as I have gone by and by over the years and learned of the Lord and walked with Him, I have noticed that some people just don't go onto maturity like others do.

It's as though God Himself makes a determination that this one or that one should not go onto maturity precisely for the very reasons you bring up in here today about this doctrine?

Of course there are other Scriptures that puzzle me as well.

These are the ones that keep me from going whole hog into the "once" saved "always" saved camp:

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.


Rev 2:16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.


Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Rev 3:4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


Rev 3:15 "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

kelli said...

In order to prevent us from false teaching we are to:
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and [in] the
knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Class from the Mastering the Bible
The Book of Hebrews:
To Whom it was Written
The inscription added to this letter in the second century
was "The Letter to the Hebrews"
The letter was written to Hebrew Christians because of the emphasis on the Levitical priesthood and sacrifices and an absence of any references to Gentiles.
Purpose of the Letter:
To warn against apostasy during persecution
There are three groups addressed by the Book of Hebrews:
1. Hebrew believers
2. Hebrews who have an understanding of Christ but have not been saved and are considering of going back to the religious system of Judaism because of the persecution for identifying with Hebrew believers.
3. Hebrew unbelievers

Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost.
(note Holy Spirit,not Christ)
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come
If they shall fall away,[In the Greek,After having fall away], to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This reminds me of the parable of the Sower again as only ONE of the four is saved and WILL endure to the end.
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

michael said...


I keep coming back to several verses that seems to be with me constantly and are a part of my constant prayer for myself, my wife and sons, my immediate family and the brethren I am deeply associated with and with brethren such as yourself, Rick.

Here they are:

2Sa 7:9 And I have been with you wherever you went and have cut off all your enemies from before you. And I will make for you a great name, like the name of the great ones of the earth.
2Sa 7:10 And I will appoint a place for my people Israel and will plant them, so that they may dwell in their own place and be disturbed no more. And violent men shall afflict them no more, as formerly,
2Sa 7:11 from the time that I appointed judges over my people Israel. And I will give you rest from all your enemies. Moreover, the LORD declares to you that the LORD will make you a house.

michael said...

continuing with more encouraging verses:

Luk 1:67 And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied, saying,
Luk 1:68 "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he has visited and redeemed his people
Luk 1:69 and has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David,
Luk 1:70 as he spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old,
Luk 1:71 that we should be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us;
Luk 1:72 to show the mercy promised to our fathers and to remember his holy covenant,
Luk 1:73 the oath that he swore to our father Abraham, to grant us
Luk 1:74 that we, being delivered from the hand of our enemies, might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.


Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,
Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Eph 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.

michael said...

continuing with more encouraging verses:

Psa 46:1 To the choirmaster. Of the Sons of Korah. According to Alamoth. A Song. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
Psa 46:2 Therefore we will not fear though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea,
Psa 46:3 though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains tremble at its swelling. Selah
Psa 46:4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation of the Most High.
Psa 46:5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved; God will help her when morning dawns.
Psa 46:6 The nations rage, the kingdoms totter; he utters his voice, the earth melts.
Psa 46:7 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress. Selah


Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;
Heb 12:16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.


Heb 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,
Heb 10:21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
Heb 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."


Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.
Rev 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.


kelli said...

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL come unto him, and make our ABODE with him.

Cherie c. said...

Maybe its me, but I fail to see any humor in this post at all.

If this issue doesn't sober one's thoughts, then nothing will.

When I first found this unchurched church, (Thank you God for Pastor Rick) I spent the better part of two to three weeks living with fear and trembling. Literal fear and trembling. At work, at the grocery store, at home. Not because of anything I did, but because of what I didn't do. It wasn't until I repented that the fear and trembling went away. God deals with us on His terms and we need to keep that foremost in our minds.

God is not mocked and I pray for anyone who does. I hear people doing that all the time. Woe to them. (not towards you Michael)

God made satan for His purposes, so I am not surprised that the Apostles would turn people over to them. It is a form of chastisement.

Since the free gift of salvation and the privilege of free will, I do believe if we don't bring our bodies under submission and out imaginations down, we will lose something. Salvation perhaps, but God's chastisement will be upon us for sure.

You are very right Mrs. K, women of today do not do what is right according to the Word of God. I was one such woman.

As a professional woman, I have begun (With the Grace of God) a blog for professional women that I invite you to read, and post to as well. We older women need to teach the younger women the Truth. No I am sure all the liberated women will find me impossible, but I am not worried about that, I live for the Lord and eternity, not people and the here and now. It is called A Biblical Woman, with its foundation in Genesis 2.22. When God made us (woman). Great place to start respecting God and the position He has placed us in. It would be most joyful to have all the Godly women here contribute.

Oh, God Bless brothers and sisters! It is truly a blessing to fellowship with you and be taught the Word of God in truth. Thank you Pastor Rick. We should thank God for this church we call a blog. Joy has filled my heart even in conviction. Praise God! Thank you Jesus!

Cherie c.

Anonymous said...

I find that the more I mature in Christ, the more I repent because I am made more aware of what I need to repent of.

Because the primary focus of my repentance seems to be when I realize that I have stopped "walking in the Spirit" and have allowed my soul to have dominion over my thoughts and actions. Realizing when this has happened and repenting of it is beginning to be 2nd nature, as the "new man" has more and more dominion over the "old man".

And as I learn to walk in the Spirit at all times,the old lusts of the flesh, the pride of life...these things become less and less an issue because I am reminded by Christ that He has overcome them in me by His Spirit. He brings me closer and closer to only doing the things I see my Father do.

Awesome stuff.

Cherie c. said...

Yes, so true. Contentment is at a new level as well. The cares of this world also have diminished. You are so right, it is awesome.

Cherie c.

shannon said...

Kelli, you mention
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL come unto him and make our ABODE with him.

***Those who have tasted and have participated with the Holy Spirit does not mean that they are genuine born again believers.
As in the parable of the Sower, only one endures to the end.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1 John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us:and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.


mrs k said...

To my sister Anonymous, who mentions fear and anxiety,

Growing up in an abusive home resulted in fear, anxiety, and insecurity practically interwoven in my DNA. It's been a challenge all these years to get past it.

I am convinced, however, that the gentle Spirit of Jesus used it to draw me to Himself at such an early age. I am not saying there's any good whatsoever in domestic violence. It's horrifying. I am saying He redeemed it and He redeemed me through it. He became my Safe Place, my Shield. He has proven Faithful and True over many decades.

How the fear and anxiety eventually left me is through an ever-increasing knowledge of Him and His grip on my life. A darkened mind renewed by continuous exposure to the light of His Word. He has done the persuading. He Who began a good work in me will complete it. (Phil. 1:6) I am convinced. I am confident.

What I finally understand now at the age of 60 (better late than never :D) is this: it's not about my faith at all. It's about His faithfulness.

I can't wait to see Him face-to-face. I can only imagine....

Anonymous said...

Michael: yes, I see the irony. Your post makes me remember that God kept secret the mystery of the gospel of Jesus Christ from men and from the powers and principalities; otherwise they would not have crufied the Lord of Glory 1Cor.2:7-9

Satan, seemingly even unwittingly, fulfills the plans of God in His wisdom. How great is His sovereignty!


kelli said...

Hebrews 10:38-39
Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

He's the Savior of My Soul

michael said...


"Sovereignty"? GREAT is His Ways and past finding out!

Shannon said...

kelli said...
Hebrews 10:38-39
Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

He's the Savior of My Soul

Indeed!! We are made "just" by Him. Those with His Spirit are the ones who ARE living by faith, as He is keeping us. His "faith" indwells us as this "faith" is Fruit of His Spirit. Galatians 5:22,23.
We cannot "draw back", as again He is keeping us.
Those Hebrew's being spoken of as drawing "back unto perdition" were never saved to begin with.

Has anyone else been ministered to by Bill Klein's teachings through Mastering the Bible link?? Curious to know.


kelli said...

It looks like the answer to your question is Nein.