LOVING HIS LORDSHIP?
The word “love” is bandied about like a one size fits all overcoat. I love this weather, I love this sandwich, I love Notre Dame, I love my doctor, I love to sleep, and on and on it goes. And I love my wife and I love my wife and I love America and I love Jesus. What an injustice we have done and by the indiscriminate and nebulous use of the word we have widely misrepresented what it actually means to love Jesus. In fact, by using that word for almost anything, the church has slowly eroded what it means to love Jesus. Who hates Jesus. Perhaps a miniscule handful, but in general everyone would say they love Jesus, just like they love ice cream. It is in reality a blatant lie.
Without delving into the different Greek words for love let us address the issue in principle. Jesus said:
“ If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (Jn.14:15)
Now the 6th chapter of Luke gives a wonderful teaching about obeying Christ, or in succinct terms recognizing His Lordship. In an outline here are the teachings of Jesus in that chapter:
1. Jesus is the Sabbath
2. Rejoicing in persecution
3. The trappings of wealth
4. Loving your enemies
5. Showing mercy without condemnation
6. Having a pure heart
7. Obedience to God’s Word
Now many times the church has made a few outward things the litmus test of following Jesus as Lord. Smoking or drinking or cursing or going to the theatre and other things are part of the list which when avoided are suggested reveal the Lordship of Jesus. As important as it is to avoid some of those things may be, they are not what Jesus addresses as it concerns His Lordship and how we must manifest our love for Him. Is it not utterly amazing how we have even taken the Lordship of Christ and molded into bite-sized specifics which are oh so convenient? And “Poof”, now if you do not drink or smoke or curse, and if you attend church and love America, you are following the Lord Jesus.
It doesn’t matter if you read and meditate upon God’s Word as long as your theology says it’s inerrant. It doesn’t matter if you pray as long as you say you believe in prayer. It doesn’t matter if you witness as long as you give financially to your church. It doesn’t matter if you speak disparagingly about liberals and the President as long as you are pro-life. It doesn’t matter if you are stocking up great sums of money for yourself as long as your church believes in grace. And here you have a western construct which presumes to represent the Lordship of Jesus as revealed in a professing believer’s life. It is man made banality all dressed up as loving and following Jesus.
The word banal is defined by commonplace or unremarkable or bland. It indicates an ordinary and humdrum kind. And used in this context, it points to a Christianity that is mostly tasteless and stale even when living within a culture of utter darkness. Yes, there are some pockets of light, but the overwhelming revelation of that which is called Christianity is little more than a practice of one of the world’s “great religions”. And if we filter that through the prism of the New Testament we can see just how sad and incongruous that is with the life and teachings of Jesus, the One who is supposed to be the center of Christianity.
But in an attempt to streamline our lives so that we can incorporate Jesus, we have redefined what it means to be a follower of Jesus. Genuflecting to certain tenants of the faith, and embracing the moniker “evangelical” will suffice in today’s western expression of Christianity. In fact, just the word “conservative” usually is enough. And let us be brutally honest here. In this fast paced western life how much does the average person sacrifice for Jesus. Does he rise early or stay up late to read and meditate in the Word and prayer? Does he have a list of lost people for which he prays? Does he pray for some missionaries by name? Does he actually live by faith or does he complain about the cost of things and the taxes he must pay? Does he love with Christ’s love sinners of all stripes? Does he consider others better than himself? Does he walk with an unmistakable and self denying air of a servant?
How can you play baseball if you do not know the rules? And how can you know the rules if they are subject to change with the whims of any current game? If the written rules of the game are only suggestions then every game can be played differently. Almost anything can be accepted as “baseball”. And so it is with the faith once delivered to the saints. If there are no real dictates and authenticating expressions, then anything can pass for Christianity. And when the majority seem to agree by their life and practice, then their lives become the standard of truth. In effect, what everyone has come to believe and accept has been formulated by what they do, not what He said.
And in an astounding process, the church systematically molds the words of Jesus to conform to what is being lived. And little by little His words are eviscerated and rendered as little more than Hallmark Card phrases that can be cleverly articulated by the preachers but have very little impact upon its listeners. The masses listen to clauses and phrases lifted out of Scripture which are presented in an innocuous format which mostly appeases and rarely convicts. And so, if you lift you hands and are emotionally moved during the praise and worship time, then you love Jesus.
The gospel narratives present Jesus as a fanatic even in those days. Just how fanatical would His life be today? How unorthodox and how out of the mainstream? Even in the western church He would be considered unstable and a loose canon. I just wonder how Jesus would be received within the evangelical community? I contend that we have so constructed a man made system which lightly uses His name, that His life and words would be irritants to our comfortable religious system. And if He set about to cleanse the church like He did to the Temple we would have Him arrested after we attempted to cast out the demons.
The second question here is what does it mean to believe and follow Jesus as Lord.
The first question is do we even care about the second question.
And that second question is an open indictment to us all. Jesus has morphed into a mythological figure whose impact is largely confined to the salvation experience and then becomes somewhat of a religious relic. Instead of a sweeping imprint upon those who claim to know and follow Him, what has surfaced is a rather smooth lifestyle that appears remarkably similar to the life of those who do not claim Christ. So the generally moral neighbor who is a lapsed Roman Catholic lives a life not dissimilar to his evangelical neighbor? What kind of Lordship are we selling?
But look once again and how Jesus teaches the elements of following Him as Lord.
1. Jesus is the Sabbath
2. Rejoicing in persecution
3. The trappings of wealth
4. Loving your enemies
5. Showing mercy without condemnation
6. Having a pure heart
7. Obedience to God’s Word
Wow. Where are all the convenient things we so often tout? Love your enemies? We could just begin there and have a monumental task. The trappings of wealth? A pure heart? Look at those commandments and tell me if the church is diligently pursuing them? Or do we identify and castigate our enemies? Do we seek to avoid the trappings of wealth or do we seek wealth itself? Can we watch the things we watch and listen to the things we listen to and have a pure heart? Do we seek passionately to obey God’s Word…all of it? And yet these are the principles which authenticate a life which embraces and obeys the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
And so the question remains. Do we actually desire to follow Jesus as Lord? I am not speaking of the classic Lordship salvation argument, for if a sinner needed to actually follow Jesus as Lord before he could be converted then who indeed could be saved? But as believers in Jesus are we even slightly interested in seeing His Lordship and all that it requires? And when we discover the expanse of that Lordship, are we willing to count the cost, pick up our cross, and follow Him?
And all this must take place in the heart. So what we feed our hearts, is what we will become. What we listen to, and what we watch, and what we think, and what we say, and what we read, is eventually what we believe. So as we step back and see just how much time we spend with Christ and how much time we spend on other things, we are faced with the inevitable and grim reality. And do not believe that you can just increase your devotional time in a legalistic way and automatically be changed into a contrite follower of the Lord Jesus. That may help, but we must also make sure the ground in our hearts is tilled with contrition and repentance.
The seeds of His Lordship cannot be planted in hard soil.
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31 comments:
As I commented in another post, I endeavor to meet the Lord in the early morning. My favorite part of the day. Where I can find peace, His peace to help me get through the day. Some in my household say I go overboard and I say I do not go overboard enough. As He changes my heart and teaches me new things I stand with humility of how wretched I am, and in awe of how Holy and wonderful He is.
I will trip and fall, because sometimes of too much of my own effort and not enough of dependence upon Him. But as a child of God I am learning, no matter how hard it is to do.
I have learned a very Valuable lesson this week. A day without pray and time spent with the Lord and His Word is truly risking your life when you go about the day. Talk about feeling helpless. The lesson has been hard to take, and again has brought me to my knees, but that is nothing compared to what could have been. In a time when we need the WHOLE Armour of God, not loving His Lordship and following Him is stupid indeed. Yes, stupid. We cannot, cannot do anything by ourselves. Giving Lordship to God is the only smart thing we can do, and a must have for our lives.
I am so sick of me that I could spit, so gladly, almost in a malnourished state I give Jesus Lordship over me. It is the only way to live, and the only way to follow Him. I barely got through this week. How I am still standing is His Grace and His Grace alone. He has dealt with me as His child, and I am grateful for that. His love even in chastisement is so indescribable, and makes me realize how unworthy I really am, but also how loved I really am. Coming our the other side of this week with only a few scorch marks is Grace sufficient. I am gladly giving up some things in my life for Him, and to have Him more abundantly. I do expect my flesh to rise up to try and prevent this as well as the enemy, but I know, that I know, that I know if I put on the Whole Armour of God and submit to His Will, His Lordship, I will prevail. With the Lord before us who can stand against us. That is the key, Jesus before us, always.
Thank you Pastor again for your preaching to the unchurched. I don't miss that building at all. Getting fed in the pasture is better than in the corral. Joy in conviction you say, yes, great Joy in conviction.
Cherie c.
good article--will refer to it often
Thanks
From Mastering the Bible, Armor of God series:
In the Greek text, when you have received Christ, you have put on the Armor of God. You don't wake up one morning and say, “I went to bed so now I have to renew and put my armor back on again!” That's all just mental manipulation....
The “helmet” of our salvation...Who is our salvation? Christ! The “Breastplate of Righteousness”...Who is our righteousness? Christ!
All of the pieces of Armor are Jesus Christ! He's telling you....In fact, the commands to “put on” the Armor, is aorist tense. It is only one time. You don't put it on every day! My question is...You are putting your armor back on... when did you take it off?! ...Well, I don't remember! What happened to it?! Did you mentally picture yourself taking your helmet out and putting it back on?!....
Christ is our Armor! There is two words that are important here. Number 1) We have the Armor of Christ, in order to resist the devil, for the purpose...”to stand”.
Sermon series link here:
http://www.masteringthebible.com/armor
If anyone is interested, I have the complete transcribe. It is lengthy so after Rick's approval to post it, I would do that.
Shannon
It's so true.
One thing I learned on this long pilgrimage is that I shouldn't use scripture lightly. And never should I use it as a defense mechanism. If there's a group discussion, and a christian doesn't agree with what's being said, and uses scripture to prove them wrong, it's like hitting them with a side of beef. Some people aren't yet ready to receive the word, their soil hasn't been completely tilled properly. I think as we mature, we realize that there's a time and place to spread God's Word, and it happens sometimes that throwing verses around to unbelievers is like throwing pearls to pigs. If there was ever a time for discernment, now is it. These things I've observed and I'm still learning everyday, and learning here as well.
Those who love Jesus (and I have a great deal to learn, and thank Mr. Frueh here for this teaching) sometimes think they have to be Jesus' bodyguard and place banners all over themselves in public, and they're so preoccupied with bragging on how they've received Him, they turn people off on Him. These are just a few things I've observed and have had to adjust my thinking. If we never only occasionally on the TV or read the papers or check the Web, we'd have more peace. We wouldn't see the hypocrisy and be grieved at the display of leaders and political celebrities exploit the Lord for gain. I have to stop allowing myself to get upset at the constant exploitation and make up my mind if I'm going to share my energy on my local community or be constantly grieved at those who throw God's word (in the political realm) out like pearls to the swine. Am working on that.
I've seen things like christians wearing Jesus as a medal of honor. Wearing big crosses and chains on their necks, while speaking out against others in a condescending manner (on news), or seen christian conventions come to town that reserve the greatest hotel convention rooms, while a few yards away, behind the grand hotel, homeless people sleep on dirty old mattresses down by the water.
I've seen pastors receive gifts from their congregations, like airline tickets so they can visit their out-of-state children. Yet, there were some in this congragation, poorer members of the church, who hadn't seen their adult children living on the opposite coast, for years, because they couldn't afford to travel.
I've seen so much unfairness, but not because injustice and unfairness is part of the world, but because much of the unfairness is performed by the 'church'. Yes, all these people wear the proud banner of "I don't smoke anymore, I don't drink anymore". But, if a faithful tither in the church has a child molester to hide, the congregation tries to hide it.
Honesty is part of 'having a pure heart. Honesty can be painful, even when it might expose shameful things, but honesty shouldn't be afraid of exposure, knowing that in the end, the honesty, though it chastened some, in the end it saves them from the fire.
If the world and unbelievers could see that christians repent and ask for forgiveness once in a while, they might be convicted by God's mercy. And if christian voices, who say they speak for the church, would once in a while publicly repent and ask for forgiveness from those they publicly humiliate, unbelievers would be touched and be drawn to the real Jesus.
Sorry that I'm going all over the place; I'm just thinking of things as I type.
Sorry Shannon, and Anonymous, I have to respectfully disagree. Because we are in the flesh, just knowing Jesus is not the Armour of God, His Word is. And why not use His Word as a defense? Jesus as our Advocator with the Father is our defender again the accuser of the brethren.
If I take your post of the Armour of God in context of your presentation, you seem to be referring to the Holy Spirit. It sounds similar to the once saved argument, and the Bible says otherwise. It is not a manner of taking off and putting on again as you state. But people do not have to read the Bible to know Christ and be born again, but by doing so they grow in Grace. Salvation is a free gift, but we also are supposed to grow. I do not believe that the scripture is as you say. Then it I beleive reduces God's Word to nothing less than allegory. God's Word is literal and that is how I read it.
Some say that the abomination of desolation will be a spiritual occurrence in us based upon the scripture of our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that because of scriptures:
Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
and
Isaiah 14:12-13
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
(mount of the congregation is the Temple Mount in Jerusalem)
Isaiah 14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Satan will accomplish this through the Anti-Christ. The Bible is both Spiritual and Literal. It is important to read the Word in context.
Putting on the Whole Armour of God is putting His Word in our heads and hearts daily.
Other Scripture:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Ephesians 6:13
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
"done all" not just having Christ. And I do not wear Him as a badge of honor. That is prideful.
Was at the Mastering the Bible site and I don't think it is for me. The Holy Spirit can show me how to master the Bible, not some man's theory. The early church had the Apostles sent directly from Jesus, and what they said, did, and wrote was then written down for us. Bible study should be accompanied with Prayer, not left to our own understanding. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Sorry if my post caused an uproar. Walking with the Lord is an everyday choice, not a once and done action. God bless.
Cherie c.
No Cherie, your post did not cause an uproar. In fact, agree with you and do not think you are ready for the studies at this time. :)
Hi kelli, What studies? I study the Bible. Not sure what I have to be ready for. I get all I need from the Word of God, from a Godly Pastor and fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ, but most of all, I get all I need from my time with the Lord. What else do I need? Thanks and God Bless kelli! =D
Anonymous 12:04 here: Well, has anyone ever written a post and come back later and reread it and been embarrassed by how it was written? I have. LOL
I re-read my post, and it was left wanting. I never made a point, but was really trying to articulate how the list from Luke 6 that was presented - on "Loving His Lordship"- was comparing to my walk. I've been trudging through in this world with church. I love the Church, wherever it may be, and because I'm not in one now, I am looking for a Church like this, where this list is, and am trying to be a church-member applying this list to myself.
Having said that, what's really bothering me lately is not knowing how to serve God as a present-day child of God. What I was trying (not successfully) to express
this morning was that it's extremely hard to share the gospel to this busy world. Thirsty people are so eager to hear and love scripture. But the increasing number of skeptical people hate anything about christianity and sometimes quoting scripture to them just makes them that much more angry. Some mega pastors and evangelists who use television, cable news and radio as their venue throw many verses out to a hard-hearted cynical audience or to people who are turned off to any Godly life. They are watching a christian's every move. They don't need to see perfection, only maybe a little humility. If they got more of the fruit of the Spirit, then bible verses might penetrate their hearts. I hear a lot of "If my people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways......" being directed at unbelievers. I remember the story of the disciples trying to free a man of demon possession and they were unsuccessful and asked Jesus why, even though they rebuked it in His Name. s Jesus replied that this kind could only go by fasting and prayer (please correct me if I'm wrong) I'll check my bible tonight. I suppose more prayer and keeping the lamp filled with oil helps us keep His authority in us. I wonder too if unbelievers sense our lack of prayer and the lack of good fruit added to that leaves us powerless even in referencing scripture. It just seems that that is what is happening today. My reference to pearls and swine, please note I'd never refer to 'people' as swine. I was referring to the precious word of God as pearls being trampled underfoot because it's not being fed to one that has understanding of how precious it is.
There's just so much to learn and thank the Lord He is patient.
Hi Cherie
You mentioned you were at the Mastering the Bible website and you said you didn't think it was for you, just agreeing with you that is all. :)
Oh, I am so sorry kelli, I took your post as agreeing with me in one aspect but not on the Mastering the Bible site. Not that you have to agree with me, please don't get me wrong. I misinterpreted your post. Please forgive me if I said anything that was hurtful. I did not intend it to be.
Have you been to the site?
your sister in Christ Jesus
Cherie c.
No need to apologize Cherie.
FYI: Mastering the Bible is where I am being ministered.
Should not of used the word "studies" to you but that I am being ministered through the teachings and explanations by the Lord through Pastor/Teacher Bill Klein. There are many out there who have NOT been called to teach as we know there are many false teachers.
Those who are called by the Lord to teach will explain scripture.
Our comments can be rather long and scripture thrown in here and there. Unless it is explained as the Lord intended it to be, it is not ministering.
Hi kelli,
Sometimes there is so much going through my head, that I miss something. I just want to add that it is not a matter of being ready for Mastering the Bible, it is a matter of not needing it at all. Why do we have to turn to other books or materials to understand the Bible? I don't think it is necessary. I appreciate your suggestion, but I will stick with studying the Bible, teaching from Godly Pastors, and prayer and time spent with the Lord. As you know, the Bible says the Holy Spirit will teach us. I find this blog edifying and instructional as we need to be taught, but I am a Berean and search the scriptures.
God Bless.
Cherie c.
Hi Cherie,
Many teachers/Pastors, laymen have many books. Some learn the koine greek in order to give an accurate teaching of the New Testament.
All are tools in which one can use to help with the study of God's Word. Mastering the Bible was a series of studies through the New Testament
What other books are you referring to Cherie?
God Bless you
Cherie,
You said you don't need other books or materials to understand the Bible. Are you speaking of "any" books and materials...or Bill Klein, Mastering the Bible, in particular? Do you not use any books or other materials as helps when studying the Bible?
Shannon
Hi Shannon, Hi kelli,
I use no other books to study the Bible. I rely upon the Holy Spirit for understanding just like it says. I also listen/read preaching from Godly men, and then search the scriptures. I rely heavily upon pray for the rest. I gave a little time to other books by men only to discover there is bias or a slant towards their way of thinking. If relying upon the Holy Spirit, coupled with the Gospel written by the Apostles was good enough for the early church, why not do likewise? That is the problem with the current church system, no one bothers to seek God in prayer and in His Word for truth, they rely upon man. How can you rely upon a book other than the Bible when even the Apostles said there is some mystery to it, which means to me anyway that Faith is very important. If the Apostles didn't have all the information (even though I believe there is more than what they wrote down, John said as much),how can a man who wrote a book possibly know more? And if by chance they do, couldn't you seek God in prayer for the same information?
God's Word interprets itself, why would I need any other interpreter?
A good Pastor, through his preaching will also direct you to the scriptures. Like the post from Pastor Rick the other day, Loving His Lordship. Pastor referred us to Luke 6, then outlined the chapter. That is the kind of teaching we need. It directs us to the Word as well as gives clear understanding of the chapter. Why would we need anything more?
I will not dictate what individuals use in their study, or who they listen to, but I will caution when using anything other than the Bible, and where and from whom the Bible says we should be taught.
Some on this blog has disputed the organizational chart, if you will, of the church, but I believe God's Word as it is written and leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit.
Leonard Ravenhill said one time, "Faith is taking God at His Word." Also he said once, You can't say, "Christ is all I need," until Christ is all you have. And since Christ ordained the Apostles, His Gospel and the Epistles are the New Testament, why would we need to go anywhere else? Rhetorical question.
One more thing:
Ephesians 4:7
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. And this goes for preachers, pastors, teachers etc.
One more Ravenhill quote:
"Do you know what's wrong with modern preaching? It's missing three things: one, it has no intensity; two, it has no majesty; three, it has no eternity." Ravenhill would have been very please with the preaching on this blog. Don't understand why people shy away from Godly Pastors. They are so hard to find. But some quote books all day long. Just don't understand it. So it is not a matter of being ready for Mastering the Bible, its a matter of not needing it, but thanks again for the suggestion.
Firmly believe Ephesians 4:7.
God Bless you both sisters,
Cherie c.
Cherie,I do not understand what you are saying about Mastering the Bible. It is going through the Bible.
What point are you trying to make Cherie, that Pastor Bill is not using scripture?
Cherie,
Forgive me as I believe I offended you by saying you are not "ready" for the studies from masteringthebible.com
In Him,
kelli
Hi kelli,
No, you didn't offend me at all.
I hope I didn't offend you or Shannon.
Just saying I get more out of one on one time with the Lord and His Word, that I do not need to master the Bible. To me God's Word is a conversation to us to get to know Him and prepare our hearts to meet Him one day I hope is soon. That's all. Nothing complicated or over the top, just a relationship with our Lord.
I have recently discovered Leonard Ravenhill and his sermons are great too. Very similar to Pastor Rick. I do visit other sites, but I do so sparingly.
God bless sisters in Chrisr,
Cherie c.
Hi Cherie,
No Cherie, I'm not offended, just saddened.
I'm noting that I'm preoccupied with what you think of Mastering the Bible and "Pastor"/Brother Bill Klein.
I'm thinking the title of the website is what you are preoccupied with.
My only desire is for the Lord to minister to others through Mastering the Bible studies as He has done for me since He led me out of the institutional church. Since reading your posts I found we had much in common, so I attempted to bless you that way. The Lord must lead His sheep, not me or anyone else.
Shannon
Hi Shannon,
And I appreciate that, but why be sad? If you believe the Lord leads His Sheep, then you understand that He may do it differently with each of us. Also, perhaps it is the name. Mastering the Bible. If taken in plain text, who are we to Master anything? Yes I know the context in which the name depicts, but it makes me uneasy in my spirit. The Bible is God's conversation with us, do we master conversations? Maybe I am putting too much emphasis on this, but the Mastering the Bible site and name did not sit well with me. God called me out of the institutional church as well, and not to be institutional again, but to deepen my relationship with Him alone, one on one and then He brought me to this blog and one other. I have ceased going to the other site because again it has the appearance, but that is all it has. Godly people preaching the a questionable theology/doctrine. A dear sweet brother, but perhaps way off base. I am seeking the Lord about that, but I am making sure that all I read, hear and see lines up with Scripture.
God really brought me down this past fall, and I believe He used the storm Sandy to do it. I had to totally depend upon Him for everything, including being loved because my family was less than loving to me since then and He made it perfectly clear that He is to take preeminence in my life. Since then I am no longer complacent with my relationship with Him and I make sure as I go to blogs, websites etc. that it lines up with His Word, not my desires and thoughts on how it should be. Even recently life in my household has gotten calmer, and I am trying to figure out if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Like I have said in many posts here, my husband and sons have been less than kind to me since the Lord dealt with me. Talk about the threshing floor!
Dear sister, if this Pastor and his website is where God is leading you then Praise God, but please do not be hurt or sad that God is using other means to teach me. I do not know where you live, but I live in NJ. We are both called out of the church system even though we never met face to face, we are still of the same body, Christ's. We have two different paths to Him and I am no one to question His ways or how he works within us. Our common denominator is Jesus and His Gospel.
You are a blessing Shannon, and I want you to know that as Pastor quotes, iron sharpens iron, and I hope to continue fellowship with you in the future. May God continue to bless you as we get closer to the day. Please also know that I lift each of you, yes all the anonymous commentators too.
your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie
Just a note about which we should all agree. There are good commentaries which minister to some but not so much to others. And sometimes a writing style or a certain doctrinal slant or even the writer's personality can minister to one group while another group is more ministered to by someone else.
It is all of the Spirit and we should be careful not to either devalue or elevate someone who preaches the Word.
Point taken, thank you Pastor. If I said something I shouldn't please forgive me. No malice intended.
Cherie c.
My comment is to us all. We all tend to sometreat our preferences as absolutes on some level, and I have often been bewildered that others do not see what I see or are not edified by the sources which edify me. I have learned not not fret.
Cherie,
Thanks for your response :) You've brought a lot though that has left me puzzled:
I'm sad because I know there are many who have come out of the institutional church system. The question is, Are those who are being led out of the institutional church really seeking the Word of God? We know they are starving and thirsting, yet most find themselves involved in another "system". Once again, they are not being fed the Word, but only a different slant, which seems on the surface to be the Word. It may have the Word attached, but again, it's a "system" encouraging the study of "works" and "performance" for the Lord, in order to help Him in the building of His Church, instead of one of learning His Word, from His Word, in context.
You say "perhaps it is the name "Mastering the Bible" that has made you uneasy in your spirit". This is a wrong way to judge and to be as the Bereans. You have not listened to a sermon in order to make a true judgment call about the website. BTW, the name of the website is "Bible Translation & Exegesis Ministries". The link to the website of the ministry is www.masteringthebible.com. If you had listened to a sermon and then were to tell me that the teaching is unbiblical and contrary to the Word, then I would take you serious. Since you have not listened to one, I am concerned about your own "discernment" and wonder what the word "study" means to you.
How do we "deepen" our relationship with Him without study of His Word, in order to grow in grace and knowledge of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? 2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Peter 3:18. What is His Word? Virtually all translations are tainted and perverted by using the Hegelian Dialectic process (check out the term) in order to arrive at a common consensus and agreement as to what is meant by God through the writers.
You say there are two different paths to Him? Hmmm.....Really?
You say "Our common denominator is Jesus and His Gospel". Have you stopped to consider that within every denomination within "Christianity" and also the cults, claim this?? My question to you, is one of, If you believe this common denominator, then why would you leave the physical church(s) you have apparently left?
Cherie, you say I am a "blessing". What does this mean to you? Do I make you "feel" good about yourself? What is "True" blessing? Only Jesus is True. Only His Spirit brings True blessing. Only His Spirit within believers can minister to another believer. Since Jesus IS the Word, He must minister through each of those of us with His Spirit with His Word. This is the only True blessing for a believer. Other than that, "blessings" are the same as the flesh and the world offer. These "blessings" are pseudo "blessings".
Forgive this long post. My only intent is to share that we must examine whether we are, in fact, learning the Word through personal study, or if once again, we've gone from the frying pan into the fire...from one religious system into another.
In Him,
Shannon
Rick,
You say "It's all of the Spirit". How can you make a sweeping statement like this? This is very dangerous ground. It may sound like His Spirit but even professing believers are seemingly like believers. People use scripture but many times are void of His Spirit.
Are you speaking of me here? Have I "devalued" or "elevated" someone because they "preach the Word"? Not quite sure where you are going.
As for first knowing one's "doctrinal slants" as a prerequisite for relationship with them, it is the institutional church that focuses on doctrine/denomination etc, instead of the all important....Does one have His Spirit indwelling or not? They claim to not fellowship with one because they don't believe the same doctrine, or if they won't join their particular denomination, etc, claiming we belong to a different "church". No! We are either part of the Body of Christ, His Church, or we are not. The institutional church in this world breaks into denominational/doctrinal groups. This division is of the flesh. 1 Corinthians 3:4. There is no division in His Church, the one Jesus Christ is building. Matthew 16:18.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
The flesh judges according to the physical eye.
John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
Shannon
My comment was with the understanding that the resource is Biblical. I was not addressing anyone but everyone.
Wow, didn't see that coming.
What is sad is everything is being taken as personal and it is not.
Shannon based upon your post to me and Pastor, I will not comment, but take it before the Lord in prayer.
Cherie c.
Cherie,
Please don't read more into my post than is there. I am not attacking you nor Rick.
We don't have control over how someone perceives something another says to them, I know.
Don't take offense from where none is intended.
Many times I am challenged by someone. This does not necessarily mean they are "confronting" me as in attack.
Shannon
Sorry for the two part post:
Part 1
Shannon with all due respect, you read more into my post than necessary, but you tell me not to do the same? With the words you used and the way your post comes across? Are you kidding?
You wrote:
Please don't read more into my post than is there
But your post (one example only):
"Cherie, you say I am a "blessing". What does this mean to you? Do I make you "feel" good about yourself? What is "True" blessing? Only Jesus is True. Only His Spirit brings True blessing. Only His Spirit within believers can minister to another believer."
Yes Shannon, the Lord uses people to be a blessing to others. and if one of your posts puts a smile on my face while going through a difficult time, is that not a blessing? Why would you say such a thing? It hurt.
You took my sincerity and threw it in my face. I know I said I wasn't going to post, but not only did you question my sincerity, but then you inferred that I may not have the Holy Spirit. All because I respectfully answered your post about the site you suggested, and told you honestly that it wasn't for me.
Not read more than what was there? I asked you to reread your post, and obviously it doesn't matter to you.
If Pastor lets this response through I hope you do reread and perhaps you will see what I see. If not, no matter, I hold no ill will towards you and just ask you to consider your approach towards me on this topic.
Cherie c.
Part 2
Also, I know some people do not believe the Bible where it states position in the church, i.e
Ephesians 4:1-13
4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I happen to believe there are positions for those called to preaching and teaching. Pastor Rick is one of those who are called to be a Pastor. If he is in error, by all means speak to him about that, but he deserves the respect given to him by his calling as the above verse describes.
Your comment back to him has a defensive tone that is unnecessary. But at the least it is disrespectful. Your post comes across like you have an ax to grind. I hope you see that is how it reads. Perhaps someone could correct me if I am wrong.
I was treated badly by my former Pastor, but that is because he wasn't a pastor. But I still had respect for his position. He will have to face Jesus at His judgment seat, as I do, but since he was given a much higher accountability, he has much more to answer for.
Believe me, I would not return if his preaching was not according to God's Word.
So as far as I have seen, to date, and with reading older posts, he has more than exhibited what is described in verse 2 and 3;
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Cannot say that about most of us who comment here, myself included. We must handle all things with the love Jesus commands of us.
I will seek the Lord on these matters instead of continuing the discord. I ask you do likewise.
May God continue to bless you in your studies in Him.
your sister in Christ Jesus
Cherie c.
Cherie,
At your request, I've re-read my post(s). I reiterate that there is no intended offense there.
Shannon
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