Sunday, April 29, 2012

Endure or Avoid Persecution

Endure or Avoid Persecution?

Do we as believers love sinners so much that we are willing to endure persecution in order to see them come to faith? That question is vital if we as the church are going to put down our carnal weapons, sacrifice our emotions, feelings, and pride, and offer ourselves as a living sacrifice. A man named Dan Savage is a gay man. He is outspoken and is disturbed by violence against gays. But how do we “respond” to such a man? What would Jesus do?

Watch this video and then I want to add to the discussion. I invite comments from all perspectives, but please think Biblically and with the nature of Christ about the subject.

Watch this video.

Did your negative emotions rise within you? Were you offended at the language? Or did you sense anger at his attack on the Bible? What kind of emotions seemed prominent as you watched and listened? As you could see, many young people walked out as they heard his attack on the Bible. I am sure they were sincere and presumed that they were standing for truth. I admit that it took some courage to walk out publicly. But if you are to be consistant in that principle, then you must leave the room every time a television is on.

But let us move past what we felt. Let us go to a place where we can think and pray and discuss this topic in the light of Scripture and the teachings and life of the One we follow. I submit beforehand, that the church has been self brainwashed into a form of self righteousness that does not in any way mirror the teachings and example of our Master. In fact, we have created major straw men which we can knock down and bask in our own applause. It generally is not intended to be mean, but does it reflect the Spirit of Christ and His cross?

Let us lay a Scriptural foundation for this discussion.

Matt.5:11-16 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matt.5:43-48 - Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Rom.12:14 - Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

I Cor.4:12 - And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

What should be our response to persecution or when men revile us for our faith? It is obvious. We should allow the love of Christ to strengthen us to the extent we suffer it. What does Paul say we should do when we are defamed or our reputation is besmirched? He says we should entreat, which means to plead with desperation. How different is that spirit than one which suggests we protest, or confront attack with attack, or walk out? That is my contention. How can a lost world, including the most belligerent among us, see Christ if they never see Christ in us?

It isn’t just your nice, lost neighbor to whom we are commanded to love and be longsuffering, it is the Rosie O’Donnell’s and the Rachel Maddow’s and the Dan Savages of this world. I realize that it is much easier to castigate them and run away with our hands over our ears, but that completely ignores the teaching, the intent, and the integrity of the cross. Jesus most forcefully confronted self righteousness, but with sinners He gave His life. Our thin skinned approach seems very convenient and in effect avoids the persecution we are called to endure for His sake.

Think about this. I know and support missionaries who live and witness in Muslim nations. Their very lives are in danger, and a few times they were called up before authorities. God has been gracious and they still provide a witness, although they must have wisdom. They have seen a score of conversions over a ten year period, and they conduct clandestine Bible studies for those converted Muslims. But some of those who came to Christ ridiculed the Bible and blasphemed the Lord Jesus in front of these missionaries. They said many blasphemous things, but those missionaries did not run out of the room in protest.

No, they stayed because the souls of those lost Muslims were more important than exhibiting their offense. The love of Christ continued to reach through those hurtful and untrue words. Why? Because their mission is souls and their vehicle is the gospel. Do we only love those who are not combative? Do we only witness to those whose level of deception is palatable? Do we now consider protest stronger than His love? So if we are unwilling to endure verbal persecution, what persecution will we endure? So where can we find some authoritative guidance on this issue?

Acts 7:58-60 - And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Ah yes, the very first martyr recorded in Scripture. But notice two important things. Notice who was a witness, and in fact a supporter, in the death of Stephen. None other than a man named Saul who was later to become the great apostle Paul. But notice also what Stephen prayed AS HE DIED. “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.” I assume that the man Saul heard that prayer as did all of his executioners. Do you believe that had a more redemptive impact on those people than if Stephen would have called down judgment upon them all?

Matt.27:27-31 - Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.
28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.
31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

Jn.19:1-3 - Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

And here we find our undisputed example. This is not just an emotional story meant to invoke sympathy. No, this is to be presented to us, and in fact shoved in our self righteous faces, as a convicting example of just how far Jesus went to reach US and just how far we should go to reach THEM! Do you not see just how much we have changed and manipulated the spiritual mandate in order to make ourselves some “warriors for truth” fairy tale?

Truth? Are not the verses I have shared truth, or is the only truth that which your systematic statements of faith offer? Why is the Trinity truth but not the self denying love for sinners? Why is the virgin birth truth but not the sprit of redemption that endures persecution with inward joy and outward love for the persecutor? Why must we walk out on a lost and deceived sinner instead of praying for him in your seat and asking for an opportunity to speak with him? Self righteousness is a sophisticated deception that most often appears as a religious conviction.

And so we must address our response in the video. If you were seated in the room, just what do you think the Spirit would be saying to your heart. How would God’s Word be a light unto your path in that situation? And if the most irritating and unsavory sinners cannot be saved, then we are all still in our sins. Meditate and pray on this, because that little high school setting has implications about how the church behaves in the larger settings of politics, moral debates, and nationalism as a whole. Who will we be to the lost world - defenders of our doctrines or sacrificial conduits of redemption. We cannot be both.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, I was not offended by what he said except that he doesn't understand God's word - and yet he thinks he does. However,we can't blame the lost for acting lost and those who are unable to understand for not understanding.

I was disappointed in the students who walked out. One girl seemed to be crying and maybe what he was saying was just too much for her. Others seemed to be walking out in protest to what he was saying - and that was, in my opinion, not right. Certainly, they could have sat silently and prayed for him rather than "fighting back" at him in a passive/aggressive way.

This seemed to feed his anger.
I think he was wrong to be so harsh with them - they are just kids, after all. If he feels the need to lash out at someone for all the wrongs that have been done to him and others like him - these kids were the wrong target.

This was a confrontation of sorts - by him directly and by the students who walked out indirectly. No one came out the better, sadly. I feel sorry for them all.

Lisa

Rick Frueh said...

Yes, they were kids. However the adults will applaud them for their courage. But we need to tune out what people like Savage say, in order to hear what the Spirit says, and also to see their need.

Anonymous said...

So many seem to forget "for we fight not against flesh and blood".
It is so tempting to do that!
We get rewarded for it so easily!
Yet it flies in the face of what the gospel tells us to do...

Savage is right about the Bible, in a way. The OT has some pretty awful stuff in it to reconcile oneself with! But if the kids would have been able to engage him, instead, with the gospel - the peace and the love and the grace that comes with Jesus...that He came for sinners and that if He railed against anyone it was the self-righteous! The first person He really revealed Himself to was not only a woman but a woman who had been married many times and was now just living with a man.

The thing about slavery was that it was a fact of every day life then and if Paul didn't speak out against it - maybe it wasn't that Paul would ever own someone - because apparently he didn't - but maybe what we get from that is that we aren't to fight against things like that. It gets in the way of the gospel. It sidetracks us. It would be fighting against flesh and blood again.

Lisa

Rick Frueh said...

" The OT has some pretty awful stuff in it to reconcile oneself with!"

Wow. Great honesty, Lisa. All of us have to trust it by faith, but all of us should admit it carries some mystery.

Great cooment, and the flesh and blood comment was great insight.

korrie said...

I don't think Jesus would have gone to hear this speech. I can not understand why these kids went in the first place if they knew it was a 'professional baiter' speech and not a question and answer type of meeting.
I was proud of the kids for walking out. I would not have wanted my kids to attend this when they were young.
This man has a demon, (or is a demon) and the best thing Christians can do for him is pray. I believe we should be a witness for our Lord. We should go two by two.
I have sat next to a homo on a plane and we conversed, I tried to be a witness as the Lord led.
Television is almost impossible to watch I agree, but even if one does watch the shows are not the in your face type like this speech was.
I am sorry I went to U-tube and was counted as a viewer of such filth.
I do not believe Jesus would have been at this event, nor do I think he would have stayed. I can not understand why you think it wrong for these kids to escape this kind of meeting.
We need to cry over these people and the life style they are leading. The best thing we can do for this man is pray. In fact I imagine that is the only thing that will reach him.
I have never gone along with drinking,drugs,homos,tatoos.. Everyone who knows me has no doubt.
Am I a sinner? yes. Does my sin seperate me from God too? yes.
The difference is that I have been washed in the blood of Jesus by the mercy of God. Jesus is my Salvation. I go to Him daily and ask for forgiveness.
I believe God has people he uses and leads to witness to all people. Even those in Africa. I pray some one will witness to this lost man and he will listen.

Rick Frueh said...

Jesus attended some parties which led some people to call him a names.

Matt.11:18 - For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

If we desire to avoid sinners we will never win them. In fact, Paul says we should fellowship with adulterers with a redemptive purpose.

I Cor.5:9 - I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

You would have avoided me before I was saved since I was a drunk, a drug addict, a violent man, a convicted criminal, a blasphemer, and in the planning stages of a murder.

BTW - Jesus came to earth knowing He would walk among sinners of every sort. We should not be repulsed at sinners as much as we should be moved with compassion. See past their sin and into their need.

Rick Frueh said...

"I pray some one will witness to this lost man and he will listen."

Perhaps all those students were praying the same prayer but could not hear that God desired to use THEM. If the words of sinners will keep us from witnessing then we will never witness until it is convenient and comfortable.

Anonymous said...

We don't win anyone to Christ. No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draw him. I don't think we are to witness to everyone we meet..If God leads us to witness to someone I believe they will already have that hunger in them and will be drawn to know what the hope is that we have. I don't think those students were wrong in leaving..that was not a good environment. If God the Father calls this young man to Jesus..he will be convicted of his sins by the Holy Spirit and repent and be born again...in God's timing not ours. I have a 20 yr old grandson who is in jail right now for a short time because of drugs and I talk to him about Jesus but in the end I can do nothing to get him born again but I can love him visit him and pray the Father draw him to Jesus and be patient and trust God's will be done. Thanks for your blog, I really enjoy your posts and visit here everyday. Nan

Rick Frueh said...

We don't win anyone to Christ.

No argument.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draw him.

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

Sometimes we over value human instrumentation, and sometimes we undervalue the same. But even if you are a Calvinist, you do not know who is predestined. Who could be more repulsive than a sinner who murdered your mate.

However there are many believers who won their family member's muderer to Christ. I believe that trumps a lost and belligerent gay person.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lord.....help me express myself properly here. Amen.

Watching the video, I saw a young man who is a son, possibly a brother. He can't understand why he is persecuted for his 'unnatural' affection that he feels he may have been born with. It's a very strong feeling, that isn't easily shaken or can easily be shut off, like a light switch, I am surmising.

Yes, he did attack those who love the Gospel, but he, like many of us, don't understand completely all it's precepts. I am a believer in all the Word of God, but do on occasion find some things in the OT very hard to swallow. The punishments for sin, stoning, there was absolutely no mercy, but life/death judgments. Slavery was a way of life in the OT. The new Testament did mention slavery, but in the Jewish traditions, where slaves were given their freedom every 7 years. Slaves were somewhat more akin to servants and their masters gave them a home, food, and a decent life, given the times they lived in.

So this young man had a point. I'm sometimes a bit confused on those points too. I would have hoped to discuss it with him, and be honest with him that I certainly don't have an answer for so much that's scontained in the bible.

As a mother of children, I feel for any young man who struggles. All I can do is admit that I don't understand why and how sins overcome us, and how sin affects us all differently, but that we are all sinners, needing God's forgiveness.

The young people leaving, made me feel badly because this young man will likely never want to have a conversation with a christian again. He's been scorned, and it's been expressed now to him that he'll have to discuss his thoughts with those who've already rejected biblical teaching. And he apologized; this makes me feel to want to reach out to him. I love this young man. One thing I've received and I hope I'm worthy of this and continue to dwell in it, but when I was saved, I felt a love for people who haven't yet known Jesus. And, as a kid, I was bullied, scorned and a misfit not fitting in the world myself. So I understand those who don't fit in. Like Paul said, "O miserable man that I am". I know we have to teach what's right, yet we are perplexed with the overwhelming emotional troubles of the world. It's too much for us, but with God, all things are possible.

Also, I can't help but believe that any individual who is in an accident, who lays dying and prays to Jesus and asks for forgiveness and eternal life, will receive this. So, with this in mind, I always pray, hope, believe that Dan Savage, in his journey here on earth, will some day will be touched by the Lord's Spirit and will seek him, and maybe read scripture with new eyes and understanding. In fact, this still happens to me now, after been born again 20 years now.

What was spoken by the prophet Joel and preached by Peter in Acts: "And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of Spirit on all flesh, your sons and your daughters shall prophecy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams, And on my menservants and on my maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophecy; I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the Name of the Lord shall be saved".

Thank you Lord Jesus.

Rick Frueh said...

I am touched by your redemptive spirit. Amen and amen.

Rick Frueh said...

It is worth understanding that those born with heterosexual attractions can righteously fulfill those attractions Biblically. But those born with same sex attractions cannot.

That does not mean that they cannot be saved, but it should infuse heterosexual believers with some compassion.

shannon said...

Psalm 127:1 Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it...

Unknown said...

I'll have to post this in 2 parts since when I tried to post it hay said it was to long.

I hear what your saying Rick but I have tried deeply loving them and all the things you have said… to multiple people who are gay and they have ripped me to shreds. They were angry, plain and simply. Then one day I saw this scripture and others like it and became confused as to how the Lord would have me walk.

Matt 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces"

He uses two metaphors. First, He refers to them as "dogs".

There are two Greek words translated "dogs" in the New Testament. One (kunarion) refers to a household pet - such as the "little dogs" that are permitted to eat the children's bread crumbs that fall from the table (Matthew 15:26). But that's not the word Jesus uses in this verse. The kind of dog He speaks of here (ku├Án) would not be the kind you would let anywhere near the table of little children! This speaks of the kind of wild, mean, "junk-yard" kind of dog that ran around in packs and growled when you approached it.

A dog of this kind was used as a metaphor for an utterly despicable person (Deuteronomy 23:17-18; 2 Kings 8:3); someone who is utterly reprobate. Revelation speaks of our heavenly home, and says, "But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever love and practices a lie" (Rev. 22:15). This kind of dog was also used to describe those who were viciously opposed to God's call for holy living, and who made themselves the enemies of God's people. The psalms speak of them as if they were gathered together in hostile packs against the godly: "The dogs have surrounded Me; the congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me . . ." (Psalm 22:16); "At evening they return, the growl like a dog, and go all around the city" (Psalm 59:6). Even the apostle Paul used this word to describe those who proved to be dangerous opponents to the ministry of the gospel. He told the Philippian believers, "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!" (Phil. 3:2).

Another metaphor our Lord uses is that of swine. There are some kinds of dogs in the Bible that were cute and others that were dangerous. But there are no other kinds of pig in the Bible but one.

Pigs were forbidden to the Jewish people as very unclean, and could not be eaten as food (Lev. 11:7; Deut. 14:8). To eat "swine's flesh" was, in scripture, considered an act of great idolatry (Isa. 65:4; 66:22). It's interesting that, when Jesus was about to cast a host of demons out of a man, they requested to be allowed to enter a heard of pigs that were feeding nearby (Matthew 8:30-32). And when the prodigal son of Jesus' parable had hit the absolute rock bottom and was reduced to feeding pigs, he became so hungry that he longed to stick his face in with the other pigs and eat their slop (Luke 15:15-16).

Unknown said...

Part 2
This is one of only two places in the Bible in which dogs and pigs are mentioned together. The other mention is found in one of my least favorite verses in the Bible. Peter wrote of those who once hear of the faith, and escape the sinful filth of this world through the knowledge of Christ, but who then wander away from the faith again and return to their former sins. Peter says that it would have been better for such people never to have known the way of righteousness, then having known it to turn away from it. "But it has happened to them according to the true proverb," Peter says: "'A dog returns to his own vomit, and a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire" (2 Peter 2:22). How horrible!

Now again, given all that has been said, I suggest to you that a dog in our verse is meant to be understood as someone who is utterly hardened in their sin and hostile toward anyone who would seek to call them from it. They represent someone who is viciously opposed to the message of the gospel; and who would, if possible, gather together with others to attack those who proclaim it. When the hand of grace is extended to them by one of God's servants, this kind of "dog" snarls and snaps at it.

And similarly a pig in our verse is meant to be understood as someone who is utterly incapable of differentiating between what is holy and what is common; what is good and what is evil. It speaks of someone who could no more appreciate the precious value of the things of God than a pig could appreciate an expensive and exotic meal prepared by a gourmet chief. They could care less about the real value of something.

Jesus tells us not to put the two things together. Don't give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine. As judgmental as it may seem to some, Jesus is warning us not to be indiscriminate about how we share the precious things of Christ. Much harm comes about when we fail to practice good spiritual discrimination.

And this leads us to His words about . . .

The dangers of sharing the treasures of Christ with those who scorn them

Jesus says not to do this for two reasons. The first is, "lest they trample them underfoot . . ." That's a picture of taking the precious things of Christ that are worthy of great honor, and defiling them in a careless and thoughtless manner - and thus bringing even greater condemnation upon themselves. We're to be discriminating in how we share the precious things of Christ, and not allow them to be trampled underfoot by someone who hates them or who can't appreciate the value of them.

And the second thing is, after trampling the precious things of God underfoot, they then "turn and tear you in pieces". Spiritual dogs and hogs don't just defile the precious things of God; they will also try to destroy the one who sought to present them in the first place.

In closing, how do these scriptures fit into this discussion?

Rick Frueh said...

There are scores of Scriptures in the New Testament that forbid the accumlation of wealth. How do they line up with this discussion?

If a homosexual cannot be saved without a full leaving of that behavior, than no western sinner can be saved without a complete leaving of hedonistic behavior.

David said...

Isaiah 26:10-11 "If grace is shown to the wicked, he does not learn righteousness; in the land of uprightness he deals corruptly and does not see the majesty of the Lord. O Lord, Your hand is lifted up, but they do not see it."

korrie said...

Again, I believe homosexuals can and are saved. They are not going to hell if they have been saved. Only the lost are going to be seperated from Christ.
It seems you have a great burden for these people and that is good.
But shouldn't this same argument be applied to prostitutes, or prisoners, or druggies? If they give a speech should we all go? I really don't understand what you are trying to relate us to. Or what the purpose of homosexuals and money in your posts. I do agree the love of money is evil and it is rampant in America, but we all sin every day in numerous ways, countless times I would imagine. I am a sinner saved by grace. Money isn't a big problem with me, but other things are such as food. I eat too much. I plan my meals ahead. I can covet a piece of cake or candy probably better than anyone. I fight against this, and I know it is sin.
But, sin is sin and I see no reason not to call it that. Even tho it would hurt me for someone call me out for being greedy over food, it would be apporiate. So what I am asking is what is different about homosexuals and having to listening to one deny the Word of God? I am serious and I do want to understand what you are trying to teach us...I just can't understand it yet. Thanks.

Rick Frueh said...

Korrie - The gospel is not a debate. It is not shared with those whose sin does not offend us. But the church has made homosexuality the ultimate sin.

If we make homosexuality a stumbling block to the gosple, then we elevate that sin above all others. We don't require others to give up theirsin before believing on Christ.

Our calling as the church is not to combat sin. It is to live and shae the gospel. Jesus died for sinners, but we can hardly stand them.

david - God has shown grace to the wicked. The wicked is us, and the grace is the cross.

Anonymous said...

"...the wicked is us..." Reverberating in my soul, Brother. thanks.
Victoria

David said...

Yes, we are wicked. David and Isaiah were also wicked. But what set wicked David apart from wicked Saul is that when the Lord's grace was extended to him, David repented. When wicked Isaiah saw the majesty of the Lord, he asked for mercy. Wicked Saul did not. If we don't see the majesty of the Lord and repent, there is no hope for the wicked. Wicked Esau is emblematic of the wicked who find no place for repentance.

Rick Frueh said...

There is a complete and distinct and glorious difference in the way God deals with the wicked post Calvary. The ministration of death gave way to the ministration of life. And when we pull Old Testament verses out and suggest that they fit completely into the New Covenant then we are not rightly dividing the Word.

The gospel is good news to the wicked, and in this age of God's grace He is longsuffering.

II Tim.2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Ti.3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

We were once with the unregenerate wicked. We must not use the free grace of God shown to us who were and continue to be unworthy, as a platform to condemn the wicked.

Jesus did not come to condemn but to save. That is our calling, to preach the everlasting gospel to the wicked. There is no higher calling.

Anonymous said...

A reason why we get so easily offended
Is we think too highly of our selves.
Jesus never was offended , Self is too proud
We must daily humble ourselves To the point
Of becoming A Zero,we are enveloped
In our heavenly Fathers Love as Jesus was
On earth. It is the narrow Way we daily
Submit to that we can walk As Jesus walked
And besides its our Father in heaven
Hallowed be Thy name, not our name.
In Gods grace we shouldn't get offended

Rick Frueh said...

Yes, amen.

Cal said...

Unknown:

Read the context of your verse. It was in the context of judging. Do not give your judgements to those who don't want them.

There is no point for me to tell a Bernie Madoff that he is filled with greed. He will laugh at me. I can only hold out Jesus and call to repent and believe. After he has decided to follow Lord Jesus, then I can offer instruction.

That's whats happening here.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Cal,
"After he has decided to follow Jesus, then I can offer instruction".

So many of us want to offer instruction to the lost. Not until I became a true Christian could I be instructed from God's word. Until then - the Bible was not my book. When people would try to quote from it to me I would hold up my hand and say - "Don't go there. Those words mean nothing to me."
Nor should they have. I wasn't filled with the Spirit.

A friend wanted me to send out a forward to our homeschool group. (Forgive me, Rick, if I've told this story before.)
We were instructed to send Christmas cards to the ACLU. Apparently they have to open all incoming mail and it would bog down their operations to have to open all of these cards. We were to be sure to wish them all a "Merry CHRISTmas". This was supposed to bring people to Christ?

I refused to send it. I told her it was mean-spirited. I said, "Do we forget who we were before Jesus saved us? He pulled me out of the mire and washed me clean with His blood and you want me to point fingers at the people who are still stuck like I was and laugh at them and accuse them? It is only for me to point to Jesus as the Way."

Yes, Rick, Jesus came not to condemn but to save. May we never forget that! It is a lot easier to not condemn some than others, that's true! But with Christ all things are possible. It's not me who loves the lost so much as it is Christ in me who loves them. He makes me love them. On my own I'm a rather hateful person. He has transformed me to a mostly loving person - to the point it surprises me sometimes.
Sometimes I think, "Hm...back in the lost days I would have hated this person but all I feel for them now is compassion and love. That's Jesus at work in me! I can feel it!"
All praise and glory to Him!!!!

Lisa

Anonymous said...

In John 3:19, Jesus defines condemnation this way: "This is condemnation, that the light has come into the world and men loved the darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil." Jesus did not come to judge in the sense that John the Baptist was expecting (and which will happen when He comes again), but those who refused to come into the light were already judged (condemned). If a person sees the Light and refuses to come into it, what hope is there for that person?

Shannon said...

Unknown,

Thank you for your helpful definition of the 'dogs' and 'swine'. Very good and proper use of Scripture applied to the scenario in the video as well as many others we are confronted with daily in this world. The Lord blesses all of us born of His Spirit by providing teachers of the Word when/where He knows we have need of one.

Shannon

Cherie said...

I know this post is old but.....You are all confusing me.

My two cents worth:

Many Scriptures come to mind, most prominently is Love. Love covers a MULTITUDE OF SIN. God's Word defines sin, but then says LOVE covers. If this person saw true Love, he may have become less mean and more open to receive the Truth. If all anyone ever deals with is a mean "Christian", then they will be defensive at the out set.

Love thy neighbor, didn't give a description of who that is to be. But being that God is a rewarder of those who are Obedient, remember what Jesus said about loving someone who loves you back; no reward. Love someone who doesn't love you back, reward.

He even said that some cities would fair better than other cities in Israel due to non-belief; unrepentant.

Matthew 11:21
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 11:23
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

End of two cents worth. Just saying. God Bless.