Tuesday, June 04, 2013

When Compassion Turns Into Heresy


Anyone who reads my little blog knows that I have compassion to those who have same sex attractions. And I also believe that many are born with such attractions even though some others willingly acquire them through rebellion, molestation, peer pressure, and rejection. And I also believe that a sinner can believe on Jesus and be born again without changing one single aspect of his sinful life beforehand. When I came to Christ in 1975 I did not give up one single sin as I believed on Jesus and was gloriously changed forever. The Spirit has illuminated my spirit and empowered me to repent of many things along the way, and I am not the same person I was in 1975.
However let me also say I have more to go to be like Jesus than I have travelled thus far. Yes, the road before me to be completely conformed to Christ is significantly further than the road I have come in almost four decades. The church seems to count the “big sin” as having more weight than all the minor adjustments. That is because we are prone to self righteousness and we have created a caste system which forgives our own sins much more aggressively than we are willing to assign to the sins we ourselves do not commit. In fact that blindness has lent itself to a more convenient way to define sin. Our sin is generic and comes redemption ready while some sins that we do not commit must be completely repented of and ceased before God can or will forgive them. That is self righteousness.
All of us sin. We sin every single day regardless of how diligent we are to stay pure and holy. We all need God’s grace and forgiveness on a daily basis. That does not give us license to sin but it gives us the grace we need to serve the Savior. Without the grace of God we would be destroyed at our first unholy or selfish thought. The minute we drove 5 mph over the speed limit we would once again be the enemy of God. You see, the moment we truly believed on Christ we were grafted in as a child of God and we started a journey as His child. But we will not reach perfection unto God Himself receives us into His presence, and that will be all by His grace.
Now having said that, we cannot excuse or condone sin. This is the intersect where compassion and grace meets sin and disobedience. Adultery can be forgiven but it must not be condoned. Greed can be forgiven but it must not be condoned. And homosexual behavior can be forgiven but it must not be condoned. What Mr. Bell is suggesting is that we can commit sin, but as long as our sin is in a monogamous and committed relationship then God approves of it. And that is exactly where we who love the gay community cannot go. And that kind of tortured reasoning is what is unraveling the faith. On one side you have vicious words being spewed at sinners and on the other side you have false words of comfort.
But manmade theologies like that do more damage than just redefining sin. They rip at the very essence of redemption. If you read any of Rob Bell’s theology you will find a universalism throughout. It took Bell quite a while to speak clearly about his views on same sex relationships, and he still hides behind clever words as it pertains to the exclusivity of Christ. But make no mistake there are gateway issues that lead to heresy just like there are gateway drugs that lead to more dangerous drugs and eventually to death. And condoning and embracing certain sins is just one of those gateways.
I reject and denounce the often hateful verbiage launched at gay people from professing believers. And I contend that we should never get involved with the compost heap called politics and hold hands with moral unbelievers (if there is such a thing) and pass all kinds of self righteous laws designed to elevate our own morality and condemn those in need of Christ’s redemption. But within the community of believers who should be striving to know and emulate and please our Savior we must stand fast to His eternal Word. It cannot be otherwise or else we are venturing into a territory of our own making which will evolve with each succeeding generation and with each new and innovative human voice.
But I cannot nor will I join hands with false teachers like Rob Bell. With men like him there is no gray area. If Jesus tarries for another fifty years the faith once called Christian will only exist in local pockets. We are witnessing the destruction of the faith not with swords and gallows but with enticing words of men’s wisdom. Every sinner can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ. But the church cannot condone sin whether it is ours or someone else’s. And when Bell suggests that a sinful relationship is approved by God just because they limit their sin to each other, then we have changed God’s Word. In the video he quotes some man about the nature of sin. Again, the words and thoughts of man.
Because so many rail against lost sinners and champion political causes against certain sins it is tempting to go the other way. But let us cling to God’s Word with grace and humility but with certain truth. Jesus was filled with grace and truth and that is our template. The days are evil and deceptions of all kinds are swirling within and without the church. I have no doubt that the most sincere among us have been tainted by one deception or another and by the strength of the culture in which we live. But we cannot, we must not surrender any more ground. Let us never allow our compassion to be a gateway to error.
Jude says that some will be saved with compassion. That means that our compassion is within the gospel and not with falsehoods that have arisen because of the present day mores. God's Word is eternal. It cannot change. Men sit around and share their so called wisdom and they quote other men and they suggest that times have changed. Do not be deceived. The final deception is upon us. And in these next few years we will see and hear many astonishing things as men teach things they ought not and movements are birthed that are against God while still using the name of Jesus.
Stand fast. Pray much. Beg God to humble you. And keep looking at Jesus.


Anonymous said...

Hmmm. Very interesting. I feel for Rob Bell because he is trying desperately to find the answer that will satisfy him. What are his reasons? To increase membership for his churches? Or for personal reasons? He did sound like he was deflecting.

This is how I feel. I agree here that some homosexuals were born with unnatural desires, and others acquired them because of environment, influence, drug use, or experimentation. I too believe these can be saved and God can determine how much time he gives them to turn from their old selves. I know that repenting from our sins means we must be willing to stop our sins. But what some christians don't realize, is that sexual sins can be very hard to just turn off a switch from, and I make my observation from hearing from gays. I know these must be at a very difficult crossroads when they try to obey the Lord, because it's a difficult road - they can't necessarily just stop being attracted to their own sex at the drop of a hat. Some may never be able to stop the attraction and the Lord may or may not miraculously rewire them.

My husband's best man at our wedding was a good friend of ours and he and his wife were married one year before us. They had sons the same age as ours, and in their 10th year of marriage, this man had a mental breakdown; he couldn't work and several years later, they divorced. We were saddened; again, a few years later, we heard that our best man was gay. And he had a partner. The thing of it was, he never spoke to us after his breakdown, nor to any other friends. He had no one he felt would understand and he felt ashamed, I suppose, coming from a very traditional background. I wish he had come to us, and to this day, he lives fairly close to us, and I would love to invite him to our home. We still care for him. As a christian, yes, I want to just embrace him because I have compassion for him. I really don't know what I'd say or could say as a christian.

Our 'best man' didn't know his parents and his grandparents brought him up. They were much older. He had no siblings. And I know Jesus loves him.

That's all I can say for now. And if approached, yes, I have to admit that God's order is for one man, one woman and I'll have to stand on the Word and accept that God's plan is what He laid out and Sodomy is not permissible. But so is promiscuity and adultery not permissible, and I had acquaintances at work who exercised these as well. We live in a world that does not obey most of God's laws.

When a woman of the OT under the law was an adulterer, she was tested by a priest and given bitter water and if she was guilty, she would be told by the priest, "The Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell".

Pretty harsh punishment for a female adulterer. And she wasn't gay. Thank the Lord for his New Covenant of forgiveness and mercy and atonement by His blood. Yes, he still requires us to turn from our wicked ways, but He is faithful to address their every struggle, While it's true that monogamous homosexuals are trying to keep themselves from promiscuity and multiple partners, once they know God, their consciences will be pricked to know that they have to surrender everything to God, just like all of us with our various sins.

I have faith that God knows how to deal with this and he is so awesome and wonderful and merciful and forgiving. Amen!


Cherie c. said...

"Stand fast. Pray much. Beg God to humble you" "And keep looking at Jesus"

Your very life depends upon it.

We are called to have compassion, but when it compromises God's Word we must not go there. Most parents have compassion for their children but still, I hope love them enough to discipline them.

Compassion and Compromise are not interchangeable. They are polar opposites as it pertains to our Faith. God had compassion on a fallen world and sent His Son to suffer our penalty in our place, but make no mistake Jesus will come to judge the living and the dead, the saved and unsaved alike. No one is exempt.

Compassion should not encourage sinful behavior, but support the person in the bondage of sin. Always remember we were once like the world, but God is faithful to us even in our sin. It is easy to forget, once we are saved, that Jesus died for the whole world not just a few. May we replace our self-righteousness with compassion that does not compromise.

Love to all my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Cherie c.

Anonymous said...

No man knows how blind he is until he can see, may The Lord grant us light , I'd rather have the log in my eye remain
Then to judge my brothers little speck

Anonymous said...

Needed word; great comments.

Allow me to say that my strong opinion is that: the attraction is not the sin. Indulging the attraction is the sin.

Isn't a same-sex attraction the temptation, comparable to a man's attraction to a pretty young lady, or my attraction to overeat? The sin comes only if we entertain or act upon our temptations. Romans chapter 6 addresses this yielding of ourselves, and presents keys for overcoming besetting sins by faith through grace. Fighting flesh in the power of the flesh results only in failure and deeper bondage. Mortifying the flesh by faith and obedience results in freedom from sin.

No one would shame me for having an attraction to a co-worker; only if I had sex with him. But gays feel shame just for having the attraction. I believe that many are driven away from Jesus and the deliverance through the cross because their particular struggle is portrayed or perceived by them as outside of the efficacy of the Blood.

Remaining celibate is a challenge for all people. That's what gay people have to do in the Lord, unless He changes them to want to marry opposite sex. Our culture is all about hedonism and self-fulfillment, and that makes the sex/relationship issues so difficult to be lived biblically. Divorce and remarriage is the fruit of this exaltation of sex and love relationships, too.

I think the church in general has forsaken the message of living holy and consecrated, denying self, by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, in whatever circumstances one is in. This includes "loveless" marriages and unmarried straights. So it is super-hard for gay people. The message of victory over bondage to urges and joy in chastity is unheard of in Christianity. Gays think they have to stop being who they are if they embrace the faith, rather than hearing that Christ makes us new creatures and gives us a new nature that is God's intended wonderful will for us.

I wasn't very clear in expressing myself. Maybe you'll get something out of my post in spite of that.

Brother Rick, you are correct and helpful to point out that we should not be to one extreme or the other in our message to people with same-sex attraction; not hating/condemning, not falsely comforting one in sin. Our message must be the gospel of new life abiding in Christ as His nature abides in us.


Rick Frueh said...

You are correct Victoria. The one caveat I would add is that heterosexual attractions can be righteously fulfilled, while same sex attractions cannot. And that makes a gay convert's journey different than a heterosexual convert's. We should have patience and grace while still speaking truth.

Anonymous said...

Oh boy, here you go again, Rick. Why is homosexuality such a stumbling block for you? Perhaps it's because of your disturbing belief that some people are "born gay". Once you fall prey to this doctrine of demons then your theology falls apart.

Homosexuality is a choice. God would have never destroyed multiple cities because they had a birth defect, otherwise he would have destroyed leper colonies, too. These people were living in open rebellion against God, which is what homosexuality exemplifies. God destroyed them to make an example of them to future generations who would live ungodly. Jude 1:7, 2 Peter 2:6. It was a choice then, and it's a choice today.

If a man living an openly adulterous lifestyle comes to church and tries to get involved in the ministry and believes that he was born an adulterer and refuses to change because God made him that way, the church would hopefully point out his error and require him to repent (change his lifestyle). Yet, when it comes to homosexuality the church of today would agree with the reprobate and force the congregation to compromise their scripturally based position. Absolute heresy!

Jesus told the adulterous woman "go and sin no more." He didn't say "It's OK, you were born that way. I love you just the way you are." Yet, that's the message gays want to hear, and the church is becoming more willing to preach. The 501C3's have spent a generation preaching Gandhi's blasphemous "love the sinner, hate the sin" message and now we're reaping the whirlwind.

Most homosexuals don't want to change... they want acceptance so they can justify their perverse passions, and their lustful eyes are firmly fixed on organized religion.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for illumination on this subject. It is so detestable in my mind that I have a stong tendacy to condemn all homosexuals with very little compassion. But as Victoria said for a Christian with same sex attraction to fulfill righteous living and remain celibate is very difficult, but with people with opposite sexual attraction it can be fulfilled thought marraige and be pleasing to the Lord.

I do believe people can be born more, as a man, on the feminine side but also maybe mixed with an unhealthy enviroment or having been the victim of a sexual crime becoming homosexual. But in any case, as Rick said, they can change and become new creatures in Christ Jesus and be set free from those sinful urges. We all face temptations of one sort or the other and may take years to overcome. I guess that's what opened my eyes more today to this particuliar sin which makes me feel ill when I think about it, that in fact the temptation may not go away for them immediatly, but may take years, and what a fight they face with probably many times of confessing and repenting before God.

The problem is that when they (or anyone else) justifies their sin and says it's ok, God made me a homosexual (or cheater, liar, adulterer, etc)and does not repent and cry out to God for deliverence from their sin. We all must live with a repentent heart before our Lord and Saviour as we are all sinners saved by grace. We do not have to sin, we have power thru our Lord to not sin, but do we ever come to the point we do not ever sin? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Anonymous said...

All homosexuals need to be taught that "Without holiness, no man shall see God!"

They need to be taught that their current lifestyle is one that can never reflect true holiness and will always displease the LORD God.

Let's "teach" them that in Christ it is possible to live a holy, God-pleasing life and let's introduce them to holy Jesus who is the good shepherd.

Truly God is calling them out of living a life of unholiness!

Let's inform them that only in Christ can people live a life that is pleasing to God and that there is no better and more honorable way to live than in God’s holiness!

Let's teach that all homosexuals are living sinful, ungodly and unfruitful lives!

Let's teach also that all people need to repent and desire to submit to God as their authority.

Truly only by the gracious, compassionate miraculous intervention of holy God can homosexuals and lesbians be drawn to trust and obey LORD Jesus.

When a homosexual or lesbian is born again he or she is given an entirely new nature and he or she can choose to marry or stay single.

Truly only in Christ can they be set apart from the evil of this world and be welcomed into heaven.

Reine Gnade

Anonymous said...

I know that compassion can turn to heresy and when leaders bend backward to make it easy for those in the gay lifestyle to join the church as they are, needs to be corrected. We all, as sinners, must repent and turn.

But the problem today isn't about gays trying to get into churches. It's conservatives using the gay lifestyle as a political advantage to get their conservative politicians into office. It seems that the only ones who brought up the subject of homosexuality these past few years are the media, family values organizations, foundations that want to "bring America" back to it's christian roots. Why didn't all these people yell and scream about gays during the Bush years, the Clinton years?

Why all of a sudden are church spokesmen making hay out of this particular sin? The U.S. has an increasing sin problem with child pornography, and child molestation and child abuse. The difference between gays is that they have consensual sex. The child, of which Jesus said it would be better for someone to have a millstone around his neck than to offend innocent children, does not consent to being molested.

So, as christians, why is there little value placed on innocent victims of sex addicts? Why does Church make such a time about lifestyles of gays and refuse to 'touch' the topic of the sin of exploiting and abusing children?

There is something about homosexuality that turns some christians into witchhunters. They are silent on child abuse, silent on adultery, silent on pre-marital sex, silent on entertainment shows that feature 'christians' doing reality tv, which does not glorify God. They are silent on bestiality. They are silent on white men who lynch others because of their color; they are silent on the MTV music industry's disgusting music video productions; they are silent when an African-American man is tied to a bumper and dragged for two miles and decapitated.

ARE NOT THESE SINS disgusting in God's eyes???????? Do not these sins create an atmosphere of God's total disapproval????????? IF there ever was a reason for God's wrath to be poured onto the world, it would be for all these sins. Yet, the church believes that these perpetrators can be forgiven exclusively, except for gays.

So why can't they believe that gays can be forgiven? And why do they harp on this particular sin so much? The same gays lived before the Obama Administration and more gays will live beyond the Obama Administration - why is it so particularly important for some christians to call down God's punishment NOW? What disgusts them more about the gay lifestyle than sexual child abuse or blasphemers of God?


Sean said...

Anonymous wrote in a comment: "Oh boy, here you go again, Rick. Why is homosexuality such a stumbling block for you? Perhaps it's because of your disturbing belief that some people are "born gay". Once you fall prey to this doctrine of demons then your theology falls apart.

Homosexuality is a choice. God would have never destroyed multiple cities because they had a birth defect, otherwise he would have destroyed leper colonies, too. These people were living in open rebellion against God, which is what homosexuality exemplifies."

I have to disagree Anonymous. I am a young man who has struggled with same-sex attraction all my life; thanks to God he has provided me the truth of the gospel, and the endurance, faith, heavenly wisdom, and patience to not practice a gay lifestyle.

I do not believe that men are "born gay" genetically; and if genes do have anything to do with same-sex attraction, it is very minimal, and conditional. However, I am most certain that it is possible that God allows certain people to be born with certain conditions that leads to homosexual attraction for his own reasons.

Now, let's say there is proof that a person can be born gay, then what? Does that mean that homosexuality is justified? On the contrary no. Every child is born a sinner. We are all born into sin. The same-sex attraction situation is no different from the child who develops an attraction for children, or for animals, or for some other strange thing. If it happens to be true that a person is born gay, then it only goes to show how fallen creation is. Sure, the masses that are deceived will say that homosexuality is okay, if one is born that way. But we should know, that even the process of birth is corrupted by sin, just like all creation.

So if it's true that people can be born gay, it changes nothing. The truth of the matter is, people are born into sin, and birth itself is corrupted just like all of creation. Homosexuality is one result of many, of corrupted creation.

Now, the reason God does not wipe out a colony of lepers is because leprosy does not lead into sin, unlike homosexual practice. The practice of homosexuality is abominable, but leprosy is not a practice, but a health condition. Homosexuality is not a health condition, but a spiritual and mental condition that can lead into the practice.

The practice of homosexuality is a choice, the attraction is not. And this I think is something many people struggle to comprehend. I did not choose to be attracted to men. It just started happening and I did not understand why, nor did I like it. When I was a child I knew it was wrong, yet there was nothing in my power to stop it. The homosexual attraction is like a fabric sown of spiritual deception, deceiving feelings of unworthiness, of alienation, and feelings of being misunderstood or uncared for. And these deceiving feelings are so ingrained into my head, that it is difficult to see the world otherwise. That is why I must rely on God completely.

You're right, most homosexuals do not want to change from their debased ways, and will do whatever it takes to live that way. And likewise, many Christians do not want to change their self-righteous ways, and rather than preaching the gospel, they attempt to keep homosexuality at bay through political means. No matter what, the gospel must be preached to them. Homosexuals are no different from any other worker of iniquity; they all need the good news first.

This is no different from the Jews of Jesus' day, who made the lepers outcast, and treated the Samaritans as lesser people. The Jews were supposed to be spreading the law and goodness of God, but instead they erected self-righteous walls around themselves.

I hope this encourages you to not just see homosexuality as some choice, but that it is something that attacks the spiritual and mental aspect of a person. Which gives us all the more reason why we need to preach the saving gospel to homosexuals.

Anonymous said...

And Jesus said in John 3:15-21, “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

We are servants of God. We cannot change hearts and minds, that is God’s business. We are only the mouthpiece. In the last chapter of every Gospel, it instructs us to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It did not instruct us to go out and try to make everyone morally acceptable according to our standards. That is impossible and it is not acceptable to God.

Matthew 17:14-18 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

Mark 9:28-29 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

Every believer in Jesus Christ should have a heart for the unsaved. Like it says in John 3: 15-21 that is also God’s will. If we know of someone that is wallowing in sin we should be praying fervently like we do for those that have a life threatening illness. Even though I used Matthew chapter 17 and Mark chapter 9, I am not saying that those lost in sin are all demon possessed, but they are Satan controlled. If you have noticed in the news about how angry and rabid those that speak out against what the Christian church is doing and saying doesn’t it remind you of the demon possessed boy in those passages?

What did Jesus say? Did He say we should have a committee meeting discussing what the response should be? Most assuredly not, Jesus instructed us to pray and fast! We can do nothing on our own. It is about Jesus and only Jesus. Jesus is the only way to salvation.


Anonymous said...

Matthew 17:20-21 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

What Jesus is saying here is that with a little faith it is an easy work to move mountains. If you have ever been at the foot of the Rocky Mountains they are an awesome site and humongous. But to change the heart of man is a whole other more difficult work. It is then, after or during the prayer and fasting, that the Holy Spirit is present to do that work.


Cherie c. said...

I do not believe people are born with a propensity of one or another type or classification of sin. All sin is sin.

However, I have learned to look upon those unsaved with compassion because I know what the word of God says about what will happen to those who die in their sins. Death and forever torment and they will continue to sin. Can you imagine continuing to sin? No ability to stop? I can not fathom it. But it does break my heart to know that that is what the unsaved will endure FOREVER.

It is not so much which sin, but the fact that those who are so called leaders in the Christian church condone sin of any form and that they exchange hate for love. The world and the enemy has twisted what love is and it will continue until the Day of the Lord. Pray. Pray. Fast and Pray.

Cherie c.

Deb H. said...

Just a short question. Can anyone give me at least one scriptural reference to a same sex relationship in the Bible that God ordained?

Rick Frueh said...

There are none, Deb.

Deb H. said...

Thank you Rick.
Deb H.

Ron L. Smith said...

I disagree STRONGLY with what many have spoken here. And so does God's Word. The statement was made: " the attraction is not the sin. Indulging the attraction is the sin." That is simply a FALSE statement. Sin is NOT simply relegated in Scripture to ACTIONS. MANY sins are sins of DESIRE. What is COVETOUSNESS? What is LUST? It is often the DESIRE for things which is the sin itself. If my heart desires homosexual relations, then what do we do with the passage of Scripture which tells us that IF we "delight" ourselves in "the Lord", that He will give us the "desires" of our "heart."?? Jesus did NOT come and make sin LESS sinful. Notice: Jesus would tell the people that it has been WRITTEN that to MURDER is a sin. But...Jesus would then say that to even HATE someone with the DESIRE to murder is a sin. Jesus then said the same about adultery...as He said the ACT itself was sin...but the DESIRE for that act is ALSO a sin. Over and over...we find that sin is BIRTHED only after it has already been CONCEIVED inwardly. To say that homosexuality is EXEMPT from being a sin if not ACTED on is to simply say that the INWARD does not have to match the OUTWARD. That is NOT what the Bible is teaching. It is the opposite. The Bible CLEARLY says that if we change OUTWARD acts but we do not have a change of HEART...then we are PRETENDING. But...beyond that...any belief that sin is only an ACT...and that DESIRES are "OK" if they remain...is to NEGATE the "new birth." The Bible NEVER says we are RENOVATIONS...but that we are NEW CREATIONS. My OLD heart may have desired FORNICATION...but my NEW heart does NOT desire it! You say that is crazy...that we all are "tempted?" Yes...but there is a HUGE difference in TEMPTATION...which comes forth from SATAN...and our own DESIRES being the cause of our troubles! Temptation is an OUTWARD drawing by sin...not an INWARD drawing by our own LUSTS and DESIRES.

Rick Frueh said...

You are correct, Ron.

Cherie c. said...

No Ron, with respect, you are not correct. How can you add to the Word of God?

You wrote:

"Jesus would tell the people that it has been WRITTEN that to MURDER is a sin. But...Jesus would then say that to even HATE someone with the DESIRE to murder is a sin."

Where does it say that? There is no desire described in this passage.

Jesus said about murder:

Matthew 5:21-22

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Anger is usually an emotion that erupts. Anger is not hate where a person can let hate dwell inside.

And this?:

" It is often the DESIRE for things which is the sin itself. If my heart desires homosexual relations, then what do we do with the passage of Scripture which tells us that IF we "delight" ourselves in "the Lord", that He will give us the "desires" of our "heart."??"

Huh? The Bible was written for born again believers so what born again believer has sinful desires? We are tempted, but we have the Holy Spirit to convict us. Can and do we still sin even with the Holy Spirit, yes, but there isn't a desire of the heart of the believer to sin. If that were true, we would not be believers.

This statement:

"The Bible CLEARLY says that if we change OUTWARD acts but we do not have a change of HEART...then we are PRETENDING."

is a contradiction to what you wrote earlier about the desires of the heart. If we are clean inside, then we do not have sinful desires.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Temptation before sin is what the above verse is talking about.


Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


James 1:2
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

We would not be given a crown of life for enduring temptation if it were the same as sin.

We will be tempted:

2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Love you dear brother in the Lord, but there is nothing to interpret in the Word. The words on the page are self explanatory and only to those with the Spirit of God can know what it says and understand.

If temptation was sin, we would all be done in. Temptation is where we dare not go to avoid falling into sin because the flesh is weak.

Please accept this as it is given with love and respect.

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Rick Frueh said...

Desire is lust which is sin.

Cherie c. said...

I guess I don't understand. Desire of what? I desire to see the Lord. I guess you have to experiencee the desire you are alluding to.

Cherie c.

Anonymous said...

Rick, you do not need to post my latest entry. I don't want to continue any misunderstanding or wrangling of words. Ron's post is very good. I agree with it. Except that he makes I think an incorrect division between desires and temptations.Yes temptations come by Satan but appeal to our old nature and its lusts. We must reckon that old man dead to sin. But don't all of us work through that reckoning over time with some sins? Isn't that the struggle some addicts have? Some are miraculously instantly delivered from the desire; others suffer through a process of rehab.

Thank you again for providing this faith community! Love to you....

Anonymous said...

There are two types of desire: godly and ungodly.
1 Corinthians 14:1 begins: Follow after love and desire spiritual gifts...

God Himself commands us to desire the sincere milk of the word, that we may grow thereby.

Let's also recall how Paul at times had a pure desire to renew fellowship with other brothers and sisters but found himself to be hindered by Satan.

Truly Lord Jesus Christ is the joy of man's desiring!

Reine Gnade