Wednesday, April 03, 2013

The Homophobic Gospel


THE HOMOPHOBIC GOSPEL

Rom.3: - 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Since the fall of Adam sin has always existed and been practiced upon the earth. There are ebbs and flows as it pertains to certain kinds of sin, but sin itself continues its long and effervescent legacy. From the killings of the Inquisition, to the death and destruction left by Alexander the Great, to the humanistic Greek philosophers, to the Holocaust of Hitler’s Germany, and now with millions upon millions of abortions every year around the world, sin leaves its mark without embarrassment. The world is literally teeming with sin in all its forms and ways.

Since Jesus spoke in the first chapter of Acts about a worldwide gospel mission, and since the Day of Pentecost fulfilled His prophetic words of a coming power from on high, the church has been commissioned to spread the good news and to live lives which substantiate our gospel witness. We are called to be active and to “GO!” rather than be reactive according to the present dictates of the fallen culture. There is a vital and unmistakable difference between those two scenarios. In fact, one negates the gospel and expends much energy attempting to clean the outside of the cultural cup while the other spreads the gospel of redemption which is the only remedy for that same culture.

We live in an informationally drenched culture which disseminates all kinds of reports and information on a moment by moment basis and through a variety of media sources. Most of it, even though it is true, is clouded and shaded by the source through words and pictures and many levels of hyperbole. What we receive through the secular media has been processed through the perspectives of the men and women who manage that particular news source. So the focus and the tenor by which it is presented is slanted toward the opinion of the source. And it is no secret that our minds are easily affected by those kinds of commercialized news reports. And when they add the insights of “experts” millions are deeply affected in the way the news source has designed it.

And, sadly, the church has fallen prey to the wiles of the ever expanding informational age and the technology which places a variety of media receptacles in every room in our homes, in our automobiles, and in the palm of our hands. In effect we are walking antennas whose ears and eyes and minds are wide open waiting for the next piece of opinionated news or even blatant gossip. And when our ears and eyes and minds receive such things, it eventually makes its way into our hearts. Yes, we have been subtly manipulated by the fallen culture. And when the weight of that manipulation and deception is multiplied by the great numbers of professing believers being deceived, the church collectively falls into that same deception.

And instead of faithful shepherds warning the flock about this present evil age, these ministers are complicit and deceived as well. And instead of passionately speaking words of deliverance derived from God’s Word, these ministers use their oratorical prowess to fortify and even build upon the deception that has captured their flocks. Yes, they are blind guides who are not content with their own personal blindness. They must speak lies to their listeners and harden their hearts even further. It is an astonishing thing to behold for us who have been rescued from such deception by God’s grace, so we can only imagine how God Himself views this unfolding horror.

And with all the media outlets I have referenced, it offers many opportunities to publicize the heresies and the spiritual blindness entrenched within the evangelical community. Which brings me to the point of my post. Let me provide a link from which I will speak about what I now refer to as the homophobic gospel. As you read it please remember that the man doing the interviewing is a vicious individual who has called President Obama a real life demon. And the man being interviewed is the President of the largest protestant denomination in the world, the Southern Baptist Convention.  

HERE is that interview.

Ok, when I read that interview I was immediately reminded of the saying “Stupid is as stupid does”. Can it get any more bizarre and ridiculous? Let me rant for a minute before I come down from the ledge and deal with a serious principle. It is astounding to me that this man represents a leader in the evangelical community. And if you google the interviewer named Rick Wiles you will see some unbelievable quotes that are even crazy in a secular setting to say nothing of a setting which supposedly follows Jesus. And Pastor Fred Luter suggested that the world needs more men like Wiles. And when Wiles suggests that the nuclear threat coming from North Korea could be God punishing America for its stand on gay marriage, Pastor Luter admitted he was not real proficient in prophecy but that could well be a possibility. (Ok, at this point my breathing has become more pronounced.)

But there is an underlying principle that openly ignores our gospel commission and makes the church a reactionary moral institution rather than a place of redemption and humility. How and where did the church buy into their own moral superiority and ignore the many sins from which we were forgiven including the ones we commit today? And how can we present our orthodox doctrine which states that unconverted sinners cannot even know Biblical truth and are dead in their sins, and then we turn around and become obsessed with their sins? Homosexual behavior is a sin, but given how scarce the New Testament deals with that specific sin, how is it we have made it the pinnacle of all sins?

And men who look at women every day with lust in their hearts can climb a self righteous pedestal and speak volatile words about men who have same sex attractions including the unsaved? And now God is so mad about it He might use nuclear weapons from a godless culture? What kind of madness is this? This is not some unsaved Baptist conversing with an unsaved Catholic over a beer in a bar. This is the so called leader of a Christian denomination speaking insanity! It wasn’t too long ago that preachers like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson said that AIDs was God’s punishment for homosexuals. I guess God is still experimenting with a disease for adulterers and pedophiles.

Hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, economic collapse, unexpected deaths, and the events of 9/11 have all been assigned divine design centering upon same sex attractions.

But being obsessed with homosexual behavior does provide camouflage for the rampant sins within the church. I mean divorce has become an Olympic sport among believers. Greed and avarice are considered Biblical. Prayerlessness is pervasive. And how the kingdom of darkness operates is an obsession which replaces a passionate sharing of the gospel. And now the gay thing has become a replacement for the gospel.

Mary Griffith was a devout Christian in a conservative Presbyterian church in the 1970s and into the early 1980s. One of her sons. Bobby, had a secret. He felt same sex attractions since he was a child, and since he heard how people like him were going to hell, and since he heard many derisive remarks about gay people from his family and friends, he struggled to keep his feelings to himself. He had even heard his grandmother suggest they line up all the gays and shoot them. He even dated girls. But after confiding to his sister about his issue, his secret soon became know to his family. His mother especially tried counseling and prayer and strong admonitions to have him “cured”, but to no avail.

All the while Bobby was tortured inside because of his feelings. He desperately desired to be free and the condemnation he suffered from others was unbearable. He became seriously depressed and lived daily with a self loathing that most people never dream could even be possible. One day Bobby could no longer endure himself. He walked to a highway overpass and jumped in front of an eighteen wheel tractor trailer and was killed immediately. There are many believers who strongly and ignorantly suggest that all same sex attractions are a matter of choice. In Bobby Griffith’s case that was some choice. Suicide is prevalent among gay people with a self loathing being a common component.  

But this kind of personal tragedy elicits very little sympathy or compassion from the evangelical community. It seems very clear that our heterosexual credentials mean more to us than the souls of men. Moralism, which is a form of self righteousness, has overtaken the church. Content and satisfied with our doctrine and our ecclesiastical activities and our high tech Sunday services, the church literally has become insulated from the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the message of the cross. And in an amazing display of self serving motives, the gay community has been singled out as sinners above all the rest. And to be perfectly honest it isn’t the souls of gay people which motivates the church; it’s the political perspective and the affect they might have on the already fallen culture.

And now not only does the gay community have to dodge the sling and arrows of the evangelical church, but now they better duck from the incoming North Korea nukes! I believe it’s time once again to search for Jesus. Of course He now seems to be calling the righteous and treating the unrighteous as political fodder. Correction: That is the Jesus of the church and not the Jesus as revealed by Scripture and the Holy Spirit.

Avoid this homophobic gospel and embrace the true gospel which call all sinners equally to repent and believe.

37 comments:

Lorena said...

Amen to that, Rick

A friend of mine felt the same way years before I met or knew her. She couldn't talk to her parents at that time, or anyone else for that matter. One day she went to her grandmother's cottage and was going to devour many pills, and just go to sleep. Thankfully, she didn't do it. She eventually told her mom but never her dad...I think he would actually give birth to a goose if he ever found out.
Both her parents are Anglicans and attend church.

That video says a lot. No grace, no forgiveness. Their view of God makes Him out to be a monster. They also don't take into consideration the feelings of their own fellow brethren who were attracted to the same sex and still may struggle with it. I wonder how that kind of talk in the church makes them feel. But perhaps Mr. Wiles and Mr. Luter believe that no homosexual or lesbian could possibly be in their little group or the church period.

We all have a lifetime of sin behind us which needs to be forgiven. Not just the present ones, and certainly not just homosexuality. These men are blind to their own present sins.

They should be careful if and when they go to the store...a 'gay man or women' may be serving them.

Anonymous said...

I too get flustered when I keep hearing the homophobia points over and over. They seem to enjoy being homophobic and are relentless. They actually believe that events in North Korea might be possible punishment of the U.S. because of gay marriage? This is grievous.

They don't want gay leader "sinners" in their boys Boy Scouts clubs. Did Wiles ever show concern that sinful leaders might infiltrate the Boy Scouts that might be adulterers, porn addicts, sin-bearers of all kinds? And that these other sinners might in fact bring on God's wrath? Obviously to him, those don't count.

This kind of christianity is a cult. A phobia cult whose mission is to protect a nation's moral standing perfect before God. If homosexuals get out of hand, it's time for them to witch hunt them. This new breed of christian leaders are the protectors of their nation's coffers and stock market and profitable businesses and they can't have a government that caters to the moral decay caused by homosexuals. I don't even believe that they are at all concerned about a North Korean attack either. I would expect men like Rick Wiles have their bunkers all stocked with food for two years and have their Gold bar investments squared away.

They tell us what ticks God most off. They don't seem to be concerned about the a just God judging sin like, unforgiveness, cursing, slander, contention, adultery, promiscuity, pornography, gambling, ponzi scheming, stock trading and selling, death penalty, family disintegration, family abuse, lack of maternal love, lack of paternal love, march break madness, partying, drinking, pedophilia, religious child abuse cover-ups, corruption, murder, greed, prison camps, water-boarding and torture, and the one no one believes warranted God's wrath, releasing a nuclear bomb over innocent civilians in Japan. No, those atrocities did not warrant God's punishment, according to Wiles. Just homosexuals.

These men are on a witch hunt. Their rhetoric is causing some christians to carry grudges against homosexuals, or to hate them and blame them. Men like Wiles don't realize there are passionate bigots out there who take this kind of language and act out on it. May God have mercy on their souls.

Anonymous said...

The very men who moralize and call out homosexual sin may want to ask themselves why they never called out women who became career-driven and left their children in the care of others so they could "find" themselves. Our children are recipients of the selfish acts and parental neglect. If there is any blame, it's a whole community of believers that inadvertently contribute to how a young person sees himself in God's eyes. If women are focused on themselves and their jobs instead of their family, then Satan will be only too happy to take over and open up lots of avenues to young kids. It happens in many and all ways, and to all of us if we let it. The narcissistic church has a big stake in the problems we see today.

What these men like Rick Wiles forget to mention is about the sin that causes our society to go askew. Our world is so fallen and divorced, remarried, re-remarried moms and dads living with step-children, who are raising their new dad's baby, while step-mom's at work and their real mom is living with her third boyfriend might give them some clue we are not living according to God's will. The godly family structure doesn't seem to faze men like Rick Wiles. Christian leaders want women to run for President and Office and they endorse women and approve and exalt women who stand up for family values, yet these same women are away from their kids for days, weeks on end. Notice how it's the fame-seeking attention-seeking christian men and women who bark the loudest on divine punishment brought on my gays. If any of these christian career-oriented women point their finger at the moral decay of our society and blame social ills on homosexuals, maybe they need to stay home and minister to the gay friends of their kids who come home with them.

Teresa said...

These same folks would have lined up in droves to vote for adulterer/skirt chaser Herman Cain. Hypocrites!

Rick Frueh said...

Yes, as well as serial adulterer Newt.

Cherie c. said...

You're kidding me, right? for both sides of this argument.


your sister in Christ Jesus,

Cherie c.

michael said...

Someone recently quoted Spurgeon after he quoted Isaiah,
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:6 ESV), saying something to the effect that from the very first person to enter Paradise to the very last person we will all have our own peculiar turning to our own way story. We will each have our own going astray story. But, we will all have the same Savior Story!

Spurgeon's no nonsense wit is telling. Yours Rick is getting pretty darn close, too!

MargieInOz said...


I agree with all you have said here Rick, but what do we do with the Bobby Griffiths who struggle with same sex attraction .
I recently spent 5+ hours listening to a talk by Dr James White as he broke up a talk, by Matthew Vines, into segments and scripturally refuted Matthew Vine's presentation to a church, which I suspect was pro gay. Matthew is a "gay christian"(?) and I have never heard so much scripture twisting as this young man attempted to justify gay relationships.
His basic argument was that god accepted gay, loving and "monogomous" relationships, as after all god made them that way, and was only referring to the promiscuious ones as abominable! It would seem to me that some try to justify their homosexuality rather than recognise it as another lust of the flesh in need of repentance, resistance and deliverance through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Is their struggle any more difficult than those involved in fornication or adultry as these are strong and often adictive sexual desires. Did not Bobby have the same opportunity to repent and resist as those we read about in 1st Corinthians 6 : 9-11. I'm sure everyone in this scripture had the same struggles as we do today but it is clear they were set free from those attractions : verse 11. And such were some of you, but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God..
So many well known preachers are now encouraging acceptance of gay men and women and even support gay marriage, negating the wonderful message of the gospel, making it much more difficult to share the hope of deliverance through Jesus Christ. Surely the biggest opposition is from WITHIN the church today
I am not homophobic, having a close Christian friend who got involved in a lesbian relationship with a younger christian girl. I spent many tearfull hours with this lady, whom I love, eventually going to our pastor. This pastor actually attempted to put the matter under the carpet until I told him I would go to her husband. God worked an amazing miracle in this family restoring their marriage. Her husband confessed his own unfaithfulness and with forgiveness on both sides they had many happy years until his death last year. . He is faithful and will complete the work begun in us.

Rick Frueh said...

Those who can accurately present Scriptural evidence that hyomosexual behavior is a sin are often without compassion and many times present pat answers. Here is one of my previous perspectives.

http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/04/inconvenient-truth-matt.html

Anonymous said...

I'll try to share what I feel about this, as a christian. First, I know as a woman who was bullied for various reasons, what it must be like for a young gay or lesbian child at school. If they look or act differently, they are relentlessly mocked, and bullied. If a young adult, they are steered by their hormones, as we heterosexuals were as well.

Mature homosexuals, like heteros, soon mature and want to settle down and build a life with a significant other. Then, we see elderly couples, having been faithful to one another for 30, 40 years.

Whether homo, or hetero, as humans, we all aspire for the same things as we mature. Whether homo or hetero, young people act out. Some hetero kids go enjoy and engage in Mardi Gras just as much as homo kids do. Hetero students engage in the bar scene, one-night stands as much as homo students might. Young heteros go wild during college March break, as much as any young homo may go wild on March break.

In the same manner, there are young adult heteros that honor their parents and choose to refrain from the parties and the wild times, just as there are young homos that honor their parents and choose to refrain from parties and wild times. We have young people (heteros) that work hard,get an education and have a focus and a plan for their lives, and who don't get in trouble, just as there are young homos who do the same. Not all hetero children are saints. They can be promiscuous, and most are on contraceptives and have abortions and turn around and do it all over again.

Christian gay-bashers don't hate their own hetero children's sins. But they drool with bitter hatred when a homo sins. They see the entertainment industry's promotion of the gay lifestyle, or they see a photograph of a gay parade with lascivious gays making a spectacle. It's the media, the news and the entertainment industry that put the images of the wildest gays in front of our eyes, so that we can hate on them. There is no government conspiracy that is trying to push the gay agenda on us; it's the godless movie and television industry and media that creates the atmosphere that the gays are going to rule. But as christians, are we to care what the television industry does? It's been promoting sin and hedonism and sex for over 30 years now.

As christians, we need to stop being influenced by the images of what we see. Not all homos are rampant children predators, nor are they all HIV carriers. Satan hates them as much as he hates us, and he would love nothing more than to see christians attack them and place them all in the same category. If we cannot see them as human beings that Christ died for, but stereotype them all as sexual deviants that think about sex all the time, then we've been hoodwinked by Satan.

I don't know how the Lord can deal with a gay/lesbian heart, and I don't know how they can suddenly become whole, but they can; the Lord has that ocean of tender mercies that I just read(David Wilkerson) and at any time in a homosexual's life, he can be touched and have close relationship to the Lord, and we need to love them and pray for them. And while we must admit it is sin and against God's natural plan, we also must stop focusing on it, but focus on the person, his/her heart and love them as we love others who are struggling. There are many of them who want us to be real, and if we can't be real and say that we don't have all the answers to how they can feel differently, then our dishonesty turns them away.

Sometimes I think (just me) that the Lord tests our hearts to see how we react to homosexuality. We, as forgiven souls who were forgiven for things that were easy to give up, are hard on others who can be forgiven for things that are not so easy to give up. I want my homosexual brothers and sisters out there to find salvation and I ask the Lord every day - what can I say to minister to their hearts that might plant a seed?

Rick Frueh said...

Good words.

Cherie c. said...

Pastor Rick,

I just went to the post from 2008 you referenced and I have to say I do not know what to say.

I need to pray on this. I am greatly troubled. This does not seem right. Something in what you said in that post does not seem right.

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Teresa said...

David Wilkerson went so far as to allow Drag Queens to attend Times Square Church. I wonder what would happen if I would invite the Transvestite who works in my local thrift store to Church with me? I would love it if he would come and hear God's word, but I would never ever subject them to that. Makes me think twice about why would I go there myself.

These are tough times and God is calling us to examine our own hearts when we have to deal with things like this. It's cathartic, it's truth shined on our smug secret sins and most Christians are never going to understand this sadly.

The Apostles themselves were shocked when they found Jesus talking to a Samaritan woman. That was scandalous enough, but she was an adulterous whore...he told her the truth of the living water anyway. We have to be able to invite all people, Muslims, liberals, homosexuals to the well.

Cherie c. said...

Part 1

I must respectfully disagree. Quoting Scripture regarding homosexual sin is not necessarily by someone who has no compassion.

No sin is worse than any other, but the Bible does mention homosexual sin more often. Please remember Jesus was admonishing Tyre and Sidon saying that with the work done in those cities that Sodom and Gomorrah would have repented. He used them as an example of serious sin. God destroyed the cities.

My heart breaks for all people. But you must admit Pastor that prominent so called Christian leaders are supporting same sex marriage is a serious concern. If for nothing else, people believe these heretics are really anointed by God! Daniel 11:37 describes the Anti-Christ who will not desire women.

You can say I am not compassionate if you want, I stand firm upon what the Bible says.

I know Gay people and some I really like, but like my kids, I get really sad knowing what they are going to face if they don't repent.

In 2009 I was looking to expand the service offerings in my HR firm. I thought adding legal services would best serve my small business clients. The woman who answered my ad was a former Broward County Assistant DA. She had great credentials and was working for a South Jersey law firm and answered my ad because her focus was labor/employment law. When we met for lunch, I knew right away by the way she dressed.

I know, not always can you determine someone's life style by their dress, but in this particular person I could. I have met all people in my occupation, and after a much experience I was able to tell.

Cherie c. said...

Part 2

We hit it off great. We shared common HR stories and we agreed that she would look into the law to see if we could become business partners. What was so different about her? She asked me how I felt about her sexual orientation. I told her. I asked her how she felt about my faith? Needless to say, we decided that we made a great match with our same interest in helping small business. The unfortunate part, and I do believe God intervened, was that in NJ a lawyer cannot be a business partner with a non-attorney and practice law. I was very disappointed because I truly liked her and thought we would make a great team She respected me even though I was honest about it. I sent a few clients to her. She lives with a woman and they adopted an orphaned child. I disagree with that, but all I can do is pray for them. She asked me if I could work with a gay woman. My response to her was could she work with a Christian. Like I said, we hit it off and decided that we could. It was not her that I disliked, it was her lifestyle. It breaks my heart to know what she will face because she is such a sweet person. But sweet doesn't get you into the Kingdom.

Years later I was studying my Bible and came across:

2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
I knew at that moment that God had not allowed this business partnership to come to fruition. In the same way my best friend and I are no longer friends. She has been living with her boyfriend for over 25 years. I loved her. She came into my life a month before my mother died. There are times I miss her so much it hurts, but I surrender to God. Now she is out of my life. Why? Because I believe God's Word. I am not mean or think I am better than anyone else. God took me out of the church system and took me out of the world. I was in both even while in the church. You can see that I was in the wrong church. Also, you may think me arrogant to say that I am not of the church of this country or this world. The word "we" is used when referring to the church, and we are not part of that church. We are separate aren't we? I do believe that is what the Word says. I don't think it is being arrogant to say I am not of them. I do pray for them, but I am not them.

To blog about the political sinners with what seems like disdain is to single out a particular group while seeming to support those who choose to depart from God's design for male and female. All are sinners and it should be treated the same.

Really, all this focus on all of this sin should not be our focus. We are losing sight of what we, the church (body of Christ) should be doing. Sometimes with all the nonsense I read I just want to say forget it and just stick to God's Word and not bother with anyone, saved or unsaved. It is getting increasingly more difficult to tell the difference anymore. God help us all.

Ban me if you must, but I think your blog is too focused on this. You more than adequately expose the hypocrisy of making same sex issues a major focus of those who say they follow Jesus. But don't you think you are doing the same thing only in the opposite direction? And maybe, just maybe you might need to address the tolerance of this too?

Hate the sin, love the sinner. All sinners.

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Rick Frueh said...

I did not say quoting Scripture about homosexuality was sin, and I did not say all people were without compassion who do. But you completely missed the overarching tenor of my post, and just a cursory view of the climate within the evangelical community reveals a hubris toward the gay community that finds much of its power in moral politics and not in the cross of redemption. That is unmistakable.
The stench of sin emanates from the church and yet we have found our conscience soothing whipping boy. And while the American evangelical community spends money like water and borrows money just to have what we desire and saves up much money for our later enjoyment, we rail against the sin of homosexuality. The Lord's admonition concerning Sodom and Gomorrah is open to some dispute about which sin the Lord was referencing, however for every New Testament verse remotley addressing homosexual sin there are 20 that openly address the sin of greed.

Cherie c. said...

And I am trusting you are right. And perhaps I did miss something, but those in the evangelical community are slowly turning away from making homosexual lifestyles a moral issue. They are beginning to embrace it. Another source of revenue I guess.

Please go here:

http://standupforthetruth.com/2013/03/gay-affirming-churches-the-stats-and-the-movement/

This is heartbreaking. There are angels of light in pulpits today.

There are many blogs and web sites with Rob Bell, and other heretics supporting this. What I see is the political community maintaining this position to the remnant that remain opposed to same sex marriage. But that remnant is quickly diminishing.

I oppose same sex marriage because of what the Bible says, not because I look down upon them. I am concerned about there future, eternity future, the same way I do for my own children.

But I will not compromise the Word of God and say that the lifestyle is not an abomination to the Lord.

You are a Pastor, and I know you know more than I, but Genesis 19 is direct destruction of sin that I know of in the Bible besides the death of the man and wife who lied to Paul. That is major. But some would say that the ten commandments does not mention this. They are somewhat right. It does not mention directly the sin of homosexuality, but it does say to love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your strength, which means to me by the words on the page, not some new revelation, that if you love God in this manner, you will recognize this sin, and all sin for that matter. You cannot love God and sin too. To suggest that people with this lifestyle can be Christian is an affront to God. The Scripture about serving God and Man at the same time also refers to serving ourselves.

I get sick to my stomach when I hear on the news that a gay person was attacked. That is so wrong in more ways than one. God did not give us authority to harm people, we are to love them.

What we see in the political realm is quickly turning the way of the American Christian Church. They are embracing all sin and that is what is an abomination on a much more serious scale.

My son says that if I am a Christian that I am also of the right wing and those who say they represent the Church. I am neither right wing nor a member of the American church. I am a member of the Body of Christ and that makes me a citizen of Heaven and not this world or this country.

the rest of my post in next.

Cherie c.

Cherie c. said...

The people I knew in church and the few I didn't all connected on facebook. I would see pictures posted of partying, bars, and other non-christian like behaviors. When I brought this to my old so called pastor, he said to me that this was not his problem, he is not responsible for these people. The shock and sadness I felt is indescribable. Yes, he is responsible. It is because he never addressed sin, of any type that gives the impression that although we are saved, we can give occasion to sin. How utterly out of line with Scripture. Paul says we are not to even give the impression of sinful behavior.

When I told my husband about this he too did not think anything of it. So I will pose the question that I posed to him. If you were to open the roof of a bar, would you be able to tell the Christians from the unsaved?

No, you could not. Today's "christian" is of this world, not of God. God is not in him/her. It is evident by what we see and hear and read. Also, a true member of the Body of Christ would not be in a bar.

We are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God, but that does not mean that when we receive Grace that we should not make a conscience effort to change. We did not receive Grace by our own efforts, but when we received the Holy Spirit we received the ability to change our behavior and our mind set. Renewing of the mind by the Word of God. If we don't change we are not yielding to Him or His Word and we must be ever examining ourselves to be sure we are still in the faith.

I agree with you with the fundamental issue at hand. All I am saying is it looks like something different or better yet close to what the Rob Bells of this world say. If we erroneously believe that unsaved people will eventually get out of hell, then we can give license to do what we want. But the Bible says differently.

Whether homosexual sin or political greed sin, sin is the common denominator. I would like you to post about Christians who follow politicians and worship them. They believe every word they say. It's awful! The worse lie is one that a Christian believes and spreads because it leads other believers to error. No one seems to want to check Scripture to prove what is said.

When Jesus mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah He was comparing the sin to Tyre and Sidon. He was saying that if the work He did in Tyre and Sidon, was done in Sodom and Gomorrah, they would have repented. Saying in essence that the sin in those cities was worse.

Please go to that website and see that video. Then please tell me what you think about them still being a whipping boy. It doesn't hold true any longer.

Please forgive me if I seemed to be correcting, I am not. You are the Pastor, I am the sheep. I am just saying what I have noticed and that I am concerned.

Is what the young man in the video saying true? If it is, I am getting off this bus at the next stop because then to me there is no truth, not even the Bible. Is the Word of God a lie? But my spirit says differently. I firmly believe it is not a lie, but the only truth in the whole universe. I do not hate them, I fear for them just like anyone else who rejects Jesus. God is not mocked.

Thank you Pastor Rick for hearing me out. I am truly broken about this. Have a blessed day.

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Rick Frueh said...

From my post called An Inconvenient Truth:
"And so we are faced today with a colossal task of standing firm upon God’s Word without wavering, and yet reaching out in love with the gospel of Jesus Christ to the most demonstrative of fallen sinners. The most repugnant, rebellious, and the most arrogant and unrepentant sinners must hear a voice that looks beyond their sin and speaks to their need."

I believe my description of those sinners stands for itself. My post was an attempt, with varying degrees of success, to see ourselves in the mirror.

kelli said...

In our own human efforts through politics, etc and inviting the world to church to hear the gospel? What about our testimony? His Bride (His Church) is for believers not for those who are unregenerate. Inviting the world to church is inviting the wolves/goats in with the sheep. An enemy has put the wolves and goats in with the sheep. Who said that He would build His church? Why can we not trust in the Lord? How many of us are being asked for the hope that is in us? How many of those that are of the world are wanting to repent? Religious people are trying to make a bad tree produce good fruit which is impossible. We are so focused of trying to get as many on the ark as we can but how many are really interested in the truth? A few are on the narrow path.

Shannon said...

Romans 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil..
Matthew 16:18... I will build my church...
Psalm 127:1...Unless the LORD builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.
Ephesians 5:25-27"...that He might present to Himself the church..."
John 10, Jesus is the Door to the sheepfold, vs 7. All must enter the sheepfold through Him, vs 9. Thieves and robbers do not come through the Door, but through some other way, vs 1. These do not care for the flock of God, verses 12,13
1 Pet 3:15, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence" Are any asking?
The religious want to instill morality into the corrupt, transforming them from the outside in. This creates a Pharisee, Matthew 23:26 You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.
Romans 12:1,2 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Phil 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Matt 7:13,14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Shannon said...



2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

Kim said...

This is a subject very near to my heart; being the mother of a homosexual daughter. She was raised in Church, we had family devotions, we said grace, we talked about God, her mother was a church organist and her dad sang in the choir. From her earliest years in school, she was a tomboy and would not put on a dress or wear her hair in anyway but a ponytail. She never had a boyfriend, and rarely talked about boys but sometimes she got really hung up on a girl. I thought it was one of those popularity things because the ones she got hung up on were always older for the most part. It was weird. She left for college. The Lord led me to the evidence of her sexuality; I'll never forget it. One morning as I was leaving for work; the Holy Spirit said to me, "Check her email." I'm like, what? Why would I do that? But I did it, and my eyes went straight to the email I was supposed to see. I was angry. How dare that person write such trash to my daughter? I left for work and didn't give it another thought until bedtime when the Holy Spirit again said to me, "See what she replied to that letter." I'm like, oh come on, she would never respond to that, but I looked and felt all the blood drain from my body. I was in shock and at that moment, my phone rang and there she was. "Hi, Mom, what ya doin'?" "Reading your email," I replied. Immediately she began crying. I began crying, and I asked her, "Are you a lesbian?" Her reply, "Mom, will you still love me?" Of course, I'll still love you, but you know what God says about this."...

That was ten years ago. I pray for my precious, beautiful, smart, sweet, thoughtful, compassionate daughter everyday. She professes Jesus Christ as her Savior. As far as I know, she has never been promiscuous and has very few "girlfriends". We have had many discussions on this subject and have decided to agree to disagree. You see, I love her so much, and her dad condemned her to hell and broke her heart and wrote her out of his "will".

Kim said...

I know that my God is bigger than all this. He alone causes people to draw close to Him, and His Word says: Romans 10:9 If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. My daughter has done that. I invited Christ into my life as my Savior as a young girl, and honestly, here I am at 55 years old, and it wasn't until about ten years ago that I really surrendered my life to Him, and in the past five years really began to know His Word and how sacrificial a life of following Christ is. How can I tell my daughter, that she has no chance with God when she does believe. I do not and will not condone homosexual marriage. I'm sure I will hurt her with that one as she is now in a serious relationship for the past three years and I'm sure that is another bridge we will have to cross. I have told her that she needs to take everything to God in prayer and check everything she does in light of the Bible. But you see there are homosexuals (just as there are "christians") who are working for the darkness who like to stir things up by doing things like re-writing the Word of God so that they don't have to read words that will convict them. All I can do as a mother is love my daughter, and care about her friends and her special friend and PRAY fervently that God will have His way in her life. One of my best friends gave me this advice. "Love covers a multitude of sins." I try to live by that now because it sums it all up. My sins, your sins, her sins; they are all covered by love. Sometimes, maybe because God's ways are not our ways, I think perhaps there is some way around this tricky question, but then I remember that His Word says this: 1 Cor. 6:9,10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Really, all we can do is love mercy, do justly and remember that we, too, have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and trust in God's goodness to complete the work He began in those who do believe, and to draw those near that He knows will believe and repent in His good time

Shannon said...

What do the words "born again" mean? Also, how does one become "born again"?

Rick Frueh said...

Thank you for sharing, Kim.

kelli said...

Another very good study of repentance
http://www.studylight.org/ls/gt/index.cgi?a=59

kelli said...

Brother Rick,
What was wrong with the first link I shared of Greek Thoughts of the word, "Epistrepho", to be converted or turned around?
I didn't see anything wrong with it but please show me. Thanks.

Rick Frueh said...

Who said there was anything wrong with your link? It was a good study.

kelli said...

I had shared two studies, this is the one I had posted first:
http://www.studylight.org/ls/gt/index.cgi?a=60 and was not posted so I assumed there was something wrong with it, must of gotten lost in cyberspace.

Yes very good studies :)

Rick Frueh said...

Another good word study. I also like his coverage of the Moravians and some revivals.

kelli said...

I haven't read all the word studies yet and Pastor Bill had shared that he started them up again as he had stopped for a time so I hope he continues doing them.

Shannon said...

Thank you Kelli, for posting the word studies. They are necessary for understanding of what true repentance is and also who leads one to repentance.
Unless the Holy Spirit is convicting of sin, there is no repentance of it, otherwise it is only grief/sorrow produced from out of the flesh. This grief is not from the Holy Spirit as the source. As we all know, the flesh can be sorry but...

Again, 2 Cor 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

kelli said...

Shannon and all
Here is one more: http://www.studylight.org/ls/gt/index.cgi?a=61

Shannon said...

This was so helpful from the site Kelli I thought to copy/paste for anyone else to enjoy in part:

In summary, the New Testament teaches that true repentance is the making of a decision to surrender one's life to Jesus Christ for change. It also teaches that a person who regrets or is sorry for his sin can have the same outward appearance as a truly repentant person has. However, in contrast to a truly repentant person, such a one continues in his sin after the emotional effects of his sin have passed. Therefore, it is important to evaluate the condition of a person's heart, not by his emotional response to the consequences of sin that are facing him, but by the fruit of repentance he exhibits - that is, his decision to turn away from his sin and to turn to Jesus Christ for the Holy Spirit to save and change him.

Amen!!

kelli said...

There is another :):
http://www.studylight.org/ls/gt/index.cgi?a=58

Shannon said...

Thank you Kelli, for the link.
I see on Study Light website that if I click on "language studies", I can find more word studies! How the Lord ministers to us to teach us!

Blessings In Him,
Shannon