Sunday, November 03, 2013

How Nationalism Has Changed the Faith

HOW NATIONALISM HAS CHANGED THE FAITH

(My text for this message is the entire New Testament. I exhort you to read it from Matt.1:1 to Rev.22:21 in November.)

If you do any kind of study concerning the history of the faith called Christianity you must see just how it has changed over the centuries. And after the Industrial Revolution everything changed including the faith. Everything was swallowed up in an incredible wave of invention, education, success, and prosperity. And the visible church followed suit.

And in the early 1600s people began to sail to the new world called America. Some came to seek spiritual freedom, but most came to see a new beginning filled with hopes and dreams of prosperity. And this eclectic group began to experience a new found prosperity with the promise of much more. And when England started to dip into the well with some overbearing taxes the Revolutionary War began. And after much bloodshed a new nation called America was born.

This new nation was filled with ingenuity and industriousness and entrepreneurship. And there was a god concept woven into the foundation as well. The founding fathers embraced the concept of a divine being, however they had a wide variety of perspectives as to the essence of that divine being as well as an extremely wide variety of how that concept manifested itself in their lives. The nebulous term “God fearing” was the term du jour in that day.

And because they had such divergent views of spirituality they formed this new nation as a religious plurality which means every and all religions and spiritual perspectives were welcomed. In fact they made sure in the very first amendment to the Constitution that no particular religion was to be endorsed, much less promulgated, by this new nation. The unity sought was in order to achieve the maximum effectiveness for a prosperous and growing economy which would positively affect the economic lives of its citizens. And so a kind of religious unity was established very early on for the good of an effective economy. In fact the Revolution itself had begun as a result of England’s greed through unfair tax policies which triggered American greed and thus the Revolutionary War.

That entire scenario was to be expected in the natural. It is what man does and what man has always done. Not satisfied with many trees man must be able to feast on them all. And this new nation did indeed prosper beyond anyone’s wildest imagination. And the message of prosperity and the American dream spread throughout the world and caused millions to leave their homeland in search of this dream.

But living within the borders of this new nation were true followers of Jesus. Yes it is true that many of them practiced violence against the Indians and even murdered suspected witches, however they had come to America to seek religious freedom. But they were in the minority to be sure. But church buildings began to spring up everywhere and many people attended some type of religious gathering most of which called itself Christian. Although the nation was seen throughout the world in economic and even military terms, it cannot be denied that there was a religious flavor as well.

But that religious flavor was very nebulous and most of it had no impact on the culture of increasing hedonism and the seeking of wealth and the elevation of the American way of life. It would be very disingenuous and even diabolical if I did not mention that much of the prosperity which grew with lightning speed was fueled by the labor of African slaves. It would also be impossible to estimate just how much their free labor contributed in the incredible economic growth throughout America. Do not treat that fact as just another episode in the American economic story because in many ways it rises as an extremely prominent and important aspect of the overall prosperity that even now the culture enjoys.

But while this economic and military phenomenon continued to rise exponentially people that professed to be Christians began to experience something that was foreign to the early believers and most of the true believers throughout the centuries. They began to feel an attraction for the nation called America, and even though the nation was pluralistic, they suggested it was a Christian nation. And that suggestion became a conviction and eventually it was a core element in the way these professing believers felt about America. Yes, they came to the point of loving America and even pledged their allegiance which included their very lives.

And the visible church adopted that perspective and it only deepened as the years passed. This phenomenon that sees people love and pledge allegiance to an earthly nation is called nationalism. And as professing believers gave their hearts over to nationalism it began to change the church as well. No longer would sinners be seen as the fields in which we labor with the gospel. They now would be seen as either patriotic friends or enemies of the state. And if people were open hedonists or even members of cults but they were patriotic Americans the latter would trump the former. Now that is a real game changer in the evangelical world.

As difficult as it is to keep our minds fastened upon the eternal and things from above it now became impossible since the eternal had been completely muscled out, save a few references about a place called heaven, and in its place was a total and sometimes obsession with the temporal. And the nation called America was seen as a divine conduit through which temporal blessings had been given to believers. And it was taught and embraced that is was a divine responsibility to defend and protect that conduit in order to preserve the way of life to which we had become accustomed.

Suffering and hardships were now rejected and when someone disparaged us we loudly lamented it and claimed we were being persecuted. The faith that once was marked by gallows and the lion’s den and being burned at the stake had become an American religion which not only bore no resemblance to the early church, to say nothing of the New Testament, but it had become the antithesis of all Jesus taught and lived. Yes, the church in America had left Jesus and went a-whoring after the fallen nation to which it had been called to be gospel lights. Instead of being gospel lights the church became moral police. Believers championed certain moral causes and in so doing they not only left the gospel but they cultivated an atmosphere of hate and self righteousness. And all this was because the church experienced a form of the Stockholm syndrome where captives experience an illogical bonding with their captors.

Warning about the dangers of earthly prosperity disappeared because prosperity was universally embraced as a divine blessing in every and all circumstances. The church became happy in their prosperity and bold in their politics. Humility became a lost virtue and was now considered a weakness. In essence the church that sometimes used the name of Jesus was now a manufactured construction of the culture in which it lived. Nationalism was not seen as the diabolical evil that it is, but it was seen as part of a faithful Christian’s life. Think about that for a moment. Can you fathom the absolute horror of what I just said? That which is evil and sinful and which tears at the very fabric of the faith is now embraced as good and healthy and blessed by God.

And like the Mormons the evangelical community now embraced the founding fathers and their original documents as being divinely inspired. Think about that as well. Within the church there is almost a sacred aspect about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. That is blasphemy at its zenith. And there is much more energy in seeking the White House than there is in seeking the face of God. Everything, and I mean everything, about nationalism is antichrist at its core and yet it continues to grip the majority of evangelical churches. We read how the Children of Israel worshiped a golden calf and we are appalled at how rebellious and ignorant they were. How could they not have known that worshiping an idol made of gold would sorely displease the Lord? And yet we worship all kinds of idols including ones made of gold. Let us ask ourselves the same question we ask the Children of Israel. In light of the clear teaching of the New Testament and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, how can we be so rebellious and ignorant? How can God’s people publicly and proudly embrace and practice that which is completely at odds with the faith they say they believe? How can we continue to walk like zombies in lockstep with a fallen culture and yet still insist we are following Jesus?

Look all around you and see the ruins of what was once a product of a mighty rushing wind. Oh yes there are magnificent buildings and great budgets and large staffs and all kinds of activities. There are many wonderful communicators and hordes of followers of those communicators. Yes, the evangelical community in America is vibrant and powerful. But look again and see how the mighty have fallen. Watch as dead men walk and talk. See the Sunday migration take place with the same redundancy as last week and with a confidence that next week will resemble this week. It is quite an astonishing feat of the flesh to see just how alive a corpse can look. As the underground Chinese pastor once told his congregation after having visited America and her churches. “It is amazing to see what American believers can accomplish without God.”

But do not think that just because you are granted an epiphany from God concerning the sinful ways of nationalism that your journey is complete. In many ways it has just begun because the Spirit begins to unravel decades of wrong thinking and wrong behavior. Layer upon layer begin to be removed, and many times one removed layer reveals another wayward attitude and sinful perspective of the heart. I have come to believe that the overwhelming majority of the evangelical church is so proud and so invested in this nation and its culture that without a sovereign move of God it will never repent of its ways. But we can rejoice because there is personal freedom in Christ when we reject the kingdoms of men and walk out from the fog and have the Spirit open our hearts and our eyes.

We have only one continuing city and that is in heaven with the Risen Christ. Our earthly journey is still headed toward our Wonderful Savior and our earthly lives are called to be incandescent pilgrims who are living epistles and earthen vessels who carefully and humbly carry the ark of His gospel wherever we go. Let us pull up the tents that we have pitched in this world and walk as servants of the Most High God. Our country is not of this world and our nation is holy. And as we repent of the subtle and diabolical sin of nationalism, let us draw near our God with a contrite spirit and allow the Spirit of the Living God to do in and through us that which we can never do in and of ourselves.

Yes, Let the world see Jesus through our lips and our lives.
That, my friends, is an amazing miracle that can only happen through a broken vessel.

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is a word from the Lord. Amen.

There is a sense that some American christians have subconsciously adopted another 'gospel' in addition to the true gospel. Like the book of Mormon, these christians have their own 'book' and it's the Constitution and lady liberty. Maybe some aren't even aware, but when they teach, there seems to be an unspoken foundation of excessive pride and feeling exceptional in the preaching, especially in preaching about the Body of Christ around the world and in studying prophecy. All we hear is bold and unique, exceptional and that City on a Shining Hill talk, where it condenses in with the gospel.

From what I've observed, not every church does this thankfully, but it's crept in unaware to many christians, who are occupied with working and struggling to survive, and many don't even realize it. It's so easy to embrace something the pastor keeps pushing. So many christians have too much trust in their pastors in these days of delusion.

There are so many good god-fearing christians in the US. My prayer is that they can wake up to this revelation. I always wondered why coaches and teachers who are proud of their christian heritage play the National Anthem at high school games. Some want 'government' out of the way, yet they push nationalistic pride in every aspect of the culture. Nationalistic pride needs big government to keep it going.

I sometimes wonder if, since the inception of the country, with the founding fathers being slave owners, and being unrepentent of this, instilled the never-ending spirit of racism into this nationalistic pride. Maybe it doesn't occur to many christians, but is there a vein of this spirit that makes christians want to blame an African-American president for all the ills of the country? If the country has never admitted wrong in it's abuse of other people, will God forgive this nation? Don't they have to publcally ask the Native Americans, African-Americans, for true forgiveness? Not for polical reasons, but for shaking off that spirit and confessing publically to bring unity to the Body of Christ, made up of whites and blacks and latinos and aboriginals and all. Wouldn't this bring a great revival?

What christian politician or christian organization spokesman or famous evangelist dares to bring this up? None. Those who confess Christ and were forgiven for their sins seem to want to enjoy blaming a man instead of blaming a society that lives in rampant sin. They seem to believe that they can 'save' the nation by blaming other men and creating hatred toward others. Gullible christians just follow the lead.

The unrepentent state of the church in the country is so observable by other christians around the world because they continue to disparage those who don't yet know Christ in all His glory, or those unbelievers, or those sinners. Until they put the blame solely on "sinful mankind" (For all have sinned, and come short of the Glory of GOd) - Romans chapter 3:9-20 teaches on how all have sinned.

J.

Radiance said...

If it makes anybody feel better, I believe that the up and coming younger generations of Christians in this country are starving for racial reconciliation and working towards removing the stranglehold right wing nationalism has had on the body of Christ in America.

Steve said...

Where nationalism seems to have most replaced "the mind that is in Christ" is in Christians' operative thinking. And lodged there, it guides our responses to "the issues of life."

Probably most Americans reading the Bible's teachings about Christian "liberty" (for example) take that word in its Declaration-of-Independence usage. Not the same thing.

The great Bible-teacher Derek Prince preached a seminal series called "Agreeing With God." His point was that we are exhorted to walk with God (as in Micah 6:8): and "how can two walk together, unless they are in agreement ?" (Amos 3:3).

In developing that idea, Prince' first point was that we come into agreement with God when we accept His DEFINITIONS as our own: that what God says a thing is, is what it IS.

No doubt nationalism, and other forces of human culture, infect our operative thinking with their contrary definitions that lead us in their ways.

In Jesus, Steve


In Jesus, Steve

Rick Frueh said...

Wow! A Derek Prince sighting!

Cherie c. said...

Since I work, can I also listen to the New Testament? Bible gateway has an audio option. I can listen while at work and then pick up where I leave off with home reading.
My transformation away from nationalism started in 2005. Not that I intended to do so, I was just so sad hearing about all the young men dying in Afghanistan and in Iraq and could not understand why. Then the reports of false reasons to go there in the first place. These poor young men were following orders. The higher ups do not care. As long as they are safe, they don't seem to care. They are so disconnected from the real thing.
Well, I have had the opportunity to speak with many a recruiter who has either called my home or sent mail to my sons. I asked them how they got our address and phone number. They told me the schools give out this information. I was in total shock. I told them, and I was not proud of it, in a very irritated tone that I would appreciate it if they would lose our information. My sons were not interested. He told me that once they turn 18, I had no more say. I told him by this world's standards I don't, but I do not live by those. In my house I serve the Lord, no matter how hard it is, and believe me it is hard at times.
Last fall, right before the hurricane, I had to track down the office in which my younger son went to enlist. I was able to get him out of it because he had signed but they could not accept him because of some technical issue. They would suspend his application. My son told them after I reminded him of his profession of faith, showed him the pacifists in WWII, and he repented and backed out, Praise God. I also told him about the young men who posted on this blog asking Pastor Rick about their situation. One decided not to join and the other decided not to reenlist when his service ended.
The military goes to great lengths to get men and women to join up and they focus on the young. They have supped up cars they drive around in. I saw one a few years ago at my local grocery store. I saw on the news that they have a huge truck/RV loaded with video games, of course call of duty games, etc. telling these really young boys and girls about serving the country. Where are the parents telling their children about serving the Lord?
As long as I can positively influence my sons about the Lord, even if they don't always listen to me, I keep on going. I see some response, but I have to rely upon the Lord. I was once again told by my husband that I spend too much time in the Word of God, that I need to have a balance. I quietly told him that he was mistaken that the shift should be more on the Lord and less on the things of this world. I told him I do not spend enough time. So, I was blessed with the opportunity to spend the entire day in the Word, fellowshipping, it was truly a long time in coming. How blessed and stronger I feel for having done so. I was able to deal with my family and their opposition to our faith much better on Sunday.

Cherie c. said...

I had a long talk with my older son who is very much into science, last night. I can't believe how calm I was about the whole thing. I did have the fearful tummy knowing that his denial of the resurrection is so serious. I was able to keep my fear in check. I told him I would get him information on creation, the resurrection, etc. He came back to me later telling me never mind because he would only disagree with it anyway. What do I do? Well, I am going to send to his email the items and articles I found and pray that the Holy Spirit convicts him and perhaps, just perhaps he will accept the Gospel and be saved. Please pray for him. His name is Jeff. Can you imagine how I felt when he said the resurrection didn't happen?! I was immediately afraid for him. I only hope that the Lord sees in him what he saw in Paul and he is drawn near to the Lord and saved. All I can do now is pray. I hate this world and all the falseness it brings. Science invaded my son's mind and heart taking him away. He was baptized but I don't think he was really converted. He said he has read the Bible many times, but I just don't know.
There are so many outward and cunningly subtle deceptions out there in the secular and in the pulpit. The anti-Christ spirit has truly taken over so that the Anti-Christ can come to power.
I have recently become aware that before I was saved, the sunny days were really bright. Now that I am saved by the Grace of God, even the sunny days aren't so bright anymore. Darkness is really creeping in. I was tested during hurricane sandy. I failed. I was a scared and sorry excuse for a saved sinner. I complained most of the time. When I realized it I repented, but the way I handled the crisis impacted my kids. Now I have more to undo. I did tell them I repented and when my next test came, I did much better. Still have more to do, but with the help of the Lord I can be a better example of how to be as a true born again believer and put my allegiance to the Lord and not to man.
My son asked me why I haven't left this county. I told him God put me here and until he tells me otherwise here is where I stay. I know persecution is coming either from the current church system or the world or both. I deal with a little of it now. Nowhere near what our brothers and sisters deal with on a daily basis in other countries, but some. I hope when it comes I am prepared. I do not wish to go through that, but if I have to I will. I will completely DEPEND upon the Lord for the strength.
A man shot and killed a TSA employee on Friday and he claims to be Christian. No true born again believer would do such a thing, but like my son, they will include all who profess to be a Christian. The visible church is partially responsible for this act for their false teaching and/or this person was demon possessed. I am inclined to believe both are possible. The visible church refuses to teach Law and Grace.
Now more than ever before, as the darkness creeps ever closer, we need to be in prayer. Collectively as the body of Christ and as individuals with a relationship with the Lord. Jesus is our only hope. Does anyone realize that we are witnessing what our Lord foretold? Do you not see the process of end times prophecy unfolding?
On holloween, some kids came to my front door, even though the light was out on the porch. I opened the door and stepped onto the porch and said to them that we do not participate and that I did not have any candy. They seemed shocked and said okay, but one young girl, as she was walking away, started mockingly singing, "we don't participate" a few times and then wished me a happy holloween. So sad that young children, I am guessing she was no older than eight years old, was mocking me because I did not participate in holloween. My heart broke for her. What does that tell us?

Cherie c. said...

And so the darkness continues to grow. If we don't stand out as the light which we are taught to be, salt and light, we will have to face the Lord regarding it.
Brothers and sisters, don't be afraid to be honest about our faith. The Word said that what is right will be considered wrong and what is wrong will be considered right. Due to sentimentality, which is self love and the love of this world, and moral hubris.
We are called to love, not compromise. I will only stand for the faith, not a country or a system or anything else not of God. What about you? Yeah, its easy from our living rooms, but will you be the same on main street? It is a question we must ask ourselves. I do all the time. I can only pray the Lord removes this fearful heart completely so I can be who I am in Christ in my living room, as well as on main street. I know what I will face, but I fear God more than man. I'm used to being alone. It is punishment from my family when I do not agree or participate with them. Oh well, guess I will be alone. Now DON'T you feel sorry for me either. I will however accept your love and fellowship. To God be the Glory.

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Anonymous said...

I remember a friend from a church one time being so afraid of what's out there. She became obsessed with fear of spirits. One day she walked me, from the inside of her house, to her front door. On it were three small windows. It was one of those older 60 or 70-style models, with each small window neither square or round, but in a 'pear'-style shape. It we looked at it carefully, the three windows together formed an "evil face" look. She hated that door and was contemplating replacing it. She spent a lot of time on fear, curses and spirits. She didn't see the beauty of the gospel.

I actually gave out candy to the Hallowe'en kids. I thought it out years back. I couldn't turn the neighbors' kids away. I knew these kids and the community pretty much go for the fun of dressing up and for the candy. My candy was not dedicated to idols. I know it's probably not a good idea to participate in the pagan holiday thing. But, while I live in the world, and the world has it's periodic celebrations of all things, I am not going to 'convict' anyone because I didn't hand out candy. A few of my neighbors don't like me already, so it'll just aggravate the situation. The kids costumes were all fairly light fare, princesses, animals, a few jedi knights and such........and Christmas celebrations is all pagan. It's in human nature to celebrate things, I think. The Lord gave OT Jews the feast days to celebrate. I'm still musing on this when it comes to Christmas. There is no "Christ" in Christmas any more, nor was there ever. We all celebrate because we love to find a reason to take a few moments to relax and get together with family. Those who press the idea that the nation needs to force others to wish "Merry Christmas" and not "Happy Holidays" don't realize that "Merry Christmas" isn't in the bible either. One day shouldn't be regarded more than another, where Christ is concerned.

The reason I write this is that I still have to weigh my walk with God's word, and am working on that every day. The reason I bring it up is because I see the same kind of fear the church has of the political left. I know it's good to steer clear of anything that is against the gospel, but, the church seems to relish going against some made-up spiritual battles out there. I believe Satan's decoy is politics for the political church. But his real angle is materialism and greed. While looking at distractions, like taking prayer out of schools, removing the 10 commandments out of government buildings, the enemy of our souls is luring the church to fight the battles of politics. In fighting politics, they put all their eggs in one basket and think their whole lives depend on forcing righteousness. If they think they can force Jesus on someone, they win. But the Lord doesn't want anyone forced onto Him. He invites and they personally want to come to Him by their own choice. If the church worries about spiritual curses, is it because it will prevent souls from knowing Him, or because it will hurt their pocketbooks.

I don't understand why nationalism is so strong now, all of a sudden. It pushes those who Jesus came for away. John Hagee preached that he thought atheists and those who aren't followers should just move out of the country and leave, go away. Is that what Jesus would ask?

J.

Cherie c. said...

I just heard from a dear sister in Christ and I just want you all to know that I tell you what goes on as I trust you with all my heart.

I do not for one minute want anyone to feel sorry for me or think that I am ashamed of what I write. What I am ashamed about is not being able to tell you the things I have done in the name of the Lord as we should all strive to do.

I share with you my struggles not for sympathy, but so that you may be encouraged if you deal with like issues and circumstances. I am not defined by my circumstances I a defined by my salvation and faith in Jesus Christ.

I will always want your compassion, correction and love, and mostly your prayers. Not for me only, but for those in my family that need it most. If we are not being persecuted even in a minor way, we must examine ourselves. Jesus said we would be treated a certain way, of varying degrees,for our walk with Him. We do the things we do in His name,for His Glory,not ours. But we will share that Glory someday.

If what I right invokes a feeling of pity, then please don't read my comments. If you however, feel compassion, then pray for me. If you think I am in error, love me enough to correct me, but only for the Lord's sake and not your own sense of righteousness, as I have mistakenly done on occasion. Now if I correct someone it is in fear of error, but love for them as to not see them fall into worse error, or to return/repent from that error for their sake and the Lord's not mine. God has dealt with me very sternly for doing that. So when I try to correct, it is very much with love. I keep me out of it. I do that by quoting Scripture in its context.

We are to exhort, and correct, and love and pray for one another. We are to learn from one another. I have learned so much being on this blog and some days you are all I have. I am left alone and when I need to feel a part of my brethren I come here.

Your comments help me learn, give me hope, cheer me, correct me, and fellowship with me. There is nothing better, besides the return of the Lord than to come here and see a comment from you. It is the family the Word speaks about. Brotherly, holy and a Glory to our Father.

There is a saying I learned long ago, you can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.
Well.....almost. God chooses your family and His choices are perfect.

Grace and Peace from our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father God

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Cherie c. said...

We need to know when and how we are compromising our faith. I choose not to participate in a worldly, evil and satanic holiday because we are not supposed to do that. What does it say when we do those things, about who Christ is? If you are sick and tired of seeing the visible church make Jesus a genie in a bottle, then what are you making Him when you participate in pagan rituals? Sentimentality is what is wrapped around this pagan day, can't you see it.

Any professed Christian that participates in holloween will have to face the Lord about it. If we are not living to honor Him, then we are not living as we should and need to repent. The kids that came to my door I know as well, but I don't care about what they think I care about what God thinks.

We are headed into another catholic holiday season and as I did last year there will be no Christmas tree in my house. I cannot do anything about the lights, but I can make sure there is not tree.

Did anyone read the entire OT, or at least the part from Exodus to Jeremiah?

God's people were so disobedient, yet He loves them. They spit in His face with getting into bed with harlot religions. They gave into the Babylonian system of religion to the hurt of God our Father. They decorated trees with silver and gold. We say, "oh I do not worship the Christmas tree." Did you ever sing 'O Christmas Tree"? I did at one time. Um....yeah, its worship. The Bible tells us to worship with hymns and praises. What do you think music is? Singing praises.

My flesh loves the lights, the presents, the so called love of the season, but step back and look closely.

I used to be known as the person who loved Christmas the most in my family. I would start thinking about what I would give in January. I love to give gifts. To me its the best part. To see the people I love happy. But I was sending them to hell! Now, writing this I am welling up with tears because of this gross error. And now they think I am in some cult because the Lord was gracious enough to help me see the error of it all. Share the birth of our Lord with a pagan god?! God forbid. Besides, everyone knows by now, and if they don't they are deceiving themselves, that Jesus was NOT born on Dec 25. He was born somewhere around Sept/Oct, the Jewish feast days.

Oh but let's do it anyway. Um no.

So as I did last year, I will do this year. I will do as my husband asks, but I will still tell him that it is wrong. I will continue to speak the Gospel, but I will not put up lights or decorations or anything like that. This time of year I always feel bad about Christmas because I now know it is wrong and what I did before was in ignorance.

I am not admonishing anyone here to do as I do. It is between you and God. But you know it is error and when we choose to do it anyway, it is direct disobedience.
Anyone ever wonder why the Bible is silent on what day Jesus was born? Why there are only two Gospels that mention it? Why the Epistles are silent on observing it? Observe it if you must, but without the pagan symbols. Honor Him with all your regenerated heart, that is all I am saying.

Nationalism and American holidays are connected. "I'll be home for Christmas" was written during WWII. Get the connection? Sentimentality. A great deceiver. Jesus mentioned, father, mother, sister, brother for a reason.

Just saying.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Rick, you are right about this new religion that is trying to exclude the old. We have forgotten about Christ crucified, the Cross, the Resurrection and Jesus who sits on the right hand of God. This is why so many are falling away. I have been reading the New Testament like you asked, and I think that Matthew chapter 23 fits with a lot of the leaders of the mainline churches.

Cherie C, I know a mother will always worry about her children, no matter the situation. I am in my sixties, my mother is 86 and she still has concerns for me and my brothers and sisters. This is something she has taught other women that worried about the salvation of their children that is to pray that God would put someone in their children’s path that would be a witness to them to bring them back to Jesus Christ.

You cannot spank them to correct them. Even the words that you speak to your son, Jeff, are seen by him as correction. But now he is at the age of accountability, he is responsible for his own actions or inaction, in rejecting what you are saying. That is why I am writing you to pray that God would put someone in Jeff’s path, he will listen to them. I am asking God this very thing now. I also am asking that God grant you peace in this matter.

Joel

Anonymous said...


Cherie, when I was unsaved person I really struggled with anything to do with miracles. The greater the miracle the more ludicrous I thought it was.

Twenty years ago I was an unsaved man. I remember going on a Jesus March and giving expression to my faith by singing rousing songs by Graham Kendrick. I didn't realize at the time that I wasn't born again, for I considered myself a very fervent student of the Bible.

Before we set off I heard people mention that God had healed someone of arthritis. I thought they were bonkers. Weeks later I remember attending an outdoor Easter service.

A huge chorus of voices started saying Jesus is risen. Jesus is risen. It was after hearing this that I realized I couldn't join in. Why? I didn't believe that Jesus had risen from the dead.


Realizing my response was wrong I decided that I must become an even more fervent student of the Bible. God blessed that prayer and here on this blog you can read the words of a man now who is proud to proclaim that the Lord Jesus is risen!

The teaching of Derek Prince helped me immensely to focus on exploring Jesus' words which I now greatly treasure.


Josef Sefton

John Cole said...

Here is a playlist of 133 Derek Prince videos for anyone interested. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7F5FF359C3E9B229

Cherie c. said...

Thank you John,

your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.

Annette said...

I appreciate your post Pastor Rick as it bears witness to our Scriptures.

Please pray for those who have been called out of this nationalistic system and no longer worship it; those who have chosen to believe on our LORD Jesus Christ instead of the wily ways of man; those who have chosen to follow Jesus' ways and have been broken and abandoned by those who profess politics out of one side of their mouth and the name of Jesus Christ out of the other side of their mouths; and for those who are still caught up on this fairytale of nationalistic fervor whose hope points to the means that justifies the end.

And when a believer in Christ chooses to pledge allegiance to Him and that which is eternal, instead of a piece of land that is destined to burn with destruction as prophesied in Revelation, then you will be cast out of the synagogues (modern day church fellowships here in America) and left for dead alongside the road next to the white tailed deer carcas spiraling with maggots.

To deny the self, dragging the tired, achy body to the foot of the cross with tears of abandonment hurts beyond mere words as you are along with Christ Jesus....for your household no longer understands your thought process.

Is it possible, Mr. Frueh, that man is still seeking an earthly king to come and deliver us into a life lived on 101 easy street?

Praying for all those who are hurting this day, in the precious name of our LORD jesus Christ, Who is coming again. Praise Him. Amen.

Denise said...

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses it's saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men." So saith the Lord Jesus.(Matt.5:13) Surely now upon us the the True church and the Harlot Church that has wedded itself with a political federation. It is well grounded article, Rick. I pray your comment regarding Derek Prince was not meant to be dishonoring. Derek Prince is/was the greatest modern Bible teacher to date. Just read everything he wrote, preached or taught. All based on Scripture.(He read OT from Hebrew and NT from Greek first and then went on to read in various English versions. He was studied Greek from 10 years old and was qualified to teach it. He also spoke, read Hebrew as well as other languages.) If you have not done this then no one is qualifed to say otherwise.

Anonymous said...

There are many of us who are weary of Derek Prince's teaching here in America.

The greatest teacher/preacher ever to walk this earth in the form of human flesh was, and is, and is to come again, is our LORD Jesus Christ. God in the flesh. We must never lose sight of Christ's teachings and never place another human belng in His place as the church system of today so systmatically embraces with the name dropping schemes of man.

May the Name of Jesus Christ always be lifted up higher than the flesh of man.

Denise said...

With all due respect, Anonymous, the only persons who are weary of Derek Prince's teaching of the Holy Scriptures in truth, faith, and love in Christ Jesus, for many, are the practioners of witchcraft and the demons themselves. Derek Prince preached the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus and was filled with the Holy Spirit continually. He warned the Church constantly of letting the Cross become obsured by Satan. He warned also of deception, with the pride being the lever. He glorified and exalted Christ and the Holy Spirit was with him because of it. He has helped me come to better understand and walk in the knowing of our Lord, Savior and Judge by the power of His Holy Spirit. At no time would Derek Prince ever, ever, wanted or would have exalted himself. He was a friend of God's and walked with Him. God Bless.

Anonymous said...

Dear Denise,

I came out of a church system that paraded man's name far and above our LORD Jesus Christ and on any given Sunday, this man's name and that man's name was elevated to the state of sainthood. Our Holy Scriptures were but a ghost as it slipped into error and now accepts the doctrines of demons rather than true Holy Spirit inspired teaching and preaching. Anotherwords, it was a part of the heavy shepherding movement that began some time ago and has increased in denominations, thus allowing man to lord over people and not our LORD Jesus Christ, who is the true head of every man and the church. As a result, marriages have ended in divorce, relationships have been destroyed, and families have been broken due to the interferece of wicked men and women who desire control and power over people. It is no less fueled by satan himself who stated "I will be like God," so when we go to great lengths to defend the mirror image of man instead of pointing to our Savior Jesus Christ, we must wonder, is this the sign of an idol?

It is my hope that as most of us cannot understand Greek and Hebrew, that we can still have faith that God, the Holy Spirit, still teaches and still guides us in all truth, for if an eight year old reads the Bible and becomes born again of the Spirit of God in acknowledging their sin and repenting and believing on the LORD Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, then that I believe negates the theory that we must know Greek and Hebrew (anotherwords, become better educated as we are all unspiritual peons), then Jesus Christ shed His precious blood for me in vain.

This day, I choose to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ as He looketh down on thee and said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." And that my friend, is all of us.

May God be with you as well.

Denise said...

Anonymous, please hear me, I am sorry you suffered spiritual abuse.
Derek Prince publically repented for his brief (about a year) affliation with the shepharding movement and continued to speak and preach against it in years following. As with David and many more Biblical men and women, we are mere men and may fall but it's takes character to publically humble yourself and repent and accept chastisment from the Lord as He choses to discipline His sons in His own way.Derek Prince did this.
Derek Prince didn't bandy about his own name in your church, others did. But it was the "others" who apparently abused you. I tell you today, if you will forgive those people you will be set free. As far as Derek Prince, he was a servant of God. May I add that you should read the biography of Derek Prince by Stephen Mansfield and you will see the works and the warts of a truly humble man of God who always pointed to the work of the Cross and was eternally convinced that Jesus is the Son of God and lives.
I am thankful you are in Christ Jesus!

stevepage said...

"With all due respect, Anonymous, the only persons who are weary of Derek Prince's teaching of the Holy Scriptures in truth, faith, and love in Christ Jesus, for many, are the practioners of witchcraft and the demons themselves."

You really need to repent. There are many Jesus loving Christians who do not agree with Mr Prince and I am one. I happen to think that because I am filled with the Spirit of God and faithfully follow him I am His child and I can not be demonized. I think the Lord is a better Father than that. Any person who is demonized needs prayer, they need to repent, and they need to be in faithful covenant with the Lord.

Believing the full extent of Romans 8:31-38 doesn't make me or anyone else "practioners of witchcraft and the demons themselves", it makes us wholehearted believers in the faithfulness of God.

It's to bad the discussion got off topic, because MR. Frueh's is right on the money. Thank you sir for what you wrote. It's good to know that I'm not the only one who feels as you. I've often been in discussions and said many of the same things you have, only to be looked at like I had two snake heads. Praise God there are other voices speaking up for faithfulness to God.

Anonymous said...

Are you people serious here....I need to repent because I am not a follower of Derek Prince? Where does it say this in my Holy Scriptures?

Matthew 23:8
"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat." "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that obeserve, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers." But all of their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagoes, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, "Rabbi, Rabbi."

"But you, do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant, And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

All of Matthew Chapter 23 is wonderful teachings for all of us.

continued....

Anonymous said...

Dear Denise and Steve,
I choose to believe your intentions are meant for good and that you truly care about my soul, and for that, I Praise our very LORD Jesus Christ, who came to save us lost sinners and is still living and working to this very day through the power of the Holy Spirit. So I thank-you LORD For Denise and Steve and all of the other believers in Jesus Christ on this blog, for I too, have learned greatly and have received godly fellowship, and most of all, true love of our Father.

We know that satan is the accuser of the brethren, so with that, please know, that God, the Holy Spirit, has not led me to repentance in the area of following man verses denying myself and following Jesus Christ.
This is a joyful lifestyle that is becoming less burdensome as I read, study, and meditate upon God's Word daily. And I will quote one of my son's as he has seen transformation and growth in my life that is only attriuted to Christ Jesus..."Boy, mom! You sure are more at peace and joyful these days!" And this has been ongoing for alittle over a year now...and we must remember, the GLory belongs to the LORD for this, for I am a lost sheep without Him in my life. Please bear with me here, for these Scriptures bear witness to the state of all mankind....

"Then the apostles gathered to Jesus and told Him all things, both what they had done and what they had taught. "And He said to them, "Come aside by yourselves to a deserted place and reat for awhile." For there were many coming and going, and they did not even have time to eat. So they departed to a deserted place in a boat by themselves. But the multitudes saw them departing, and many knew Him and ran there on foot from all the cities. They arrived before them and came together to Him. And Jesus, when He came out, saw a great multitude and was moved with compassion for them, because they were like sheep not having a shepherd. So He began to teach them many things." Mark 6:30-34

Jesus was moved with compassion for the lost sheep. Very profound, yet simple to understand. What great love is this by our Great Physician.

up in the church as a youth, I had neveI have often wondered a great many things. Growing r heard of this man's name, nor that man's name, and sat under no man's teachings, for the Bible was espoused and read in context verse upon verse. I really didn't know much about the Pastor as he did not share stories of his life much from his sermon index for his main focus was on Jesus Christ. This does not mean that I was saved, for no, I was not saved, point being here, the Name of Jesus was lifted up as the Bible was preached and taught.

Today, I walk into churches and hear of this one's name and that one's name, whom I should watch on television, whose books and CD's I should purchase, and whose conferences I should attend....for you see, I am one of the ones labeled as less spiritual.
If I garned a coin for every time the Name of Jesus was lifted high and given His due Praise for what He has done for us in everyday conversation amongst believers, then I am sorry, I would be a very poor woman, for the coins would be few. Do you see the difference? How we go to such great lengths to acuse people they have demons living inside of them, or have a jezebel spirit, or are not saved because we choose to follow Jesus Christ and Him crucified for the remission of our sins, instead of turning to man for absolute truth? And please know this, in the natural, I have been accused of not being a Christian for I do not follow Joyce Meyers, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Mike Bickle, John MacArthur, Paula White, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, oh dear, I could fill pages here. And when I have raised questions concerning the teachings of these individuals, I have been told that I need to repent and attend a deliverance meeting for I have demons living inside of me.

continued....

Kelli Baker said...

William D. Mounce who's Greek grammar Basics of Biblical Greek has been the mainstay of many Bible colleges and seminaries who said, "the only people I have heard say that Greek is not important are those who do not know Greek themselves.

Anonymous,
Not every one knows Greek or Hebrew. Once a person has been born from out of God we then are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds by His Word. So now, as we begin our walk in the Lord we discover there are different beliefs within the various churches. How did this come about? Many choose a belief system to follow only to later find out it does not line up with His Word. Our Lord did not give us a multiple-choice selection to choose from.
There is only one explanation in the teachings of His Word.
There are many commentaries to pick and choose from that fits our beliefs. But did the author of the commentary base his explanation according to his denominational beliefs?
The Lord has given gifts to His church, one of those gifts is a pastor/teacher. But not all "pastors/teachers" in our churches are those who the Lord has sent.
Know the truth and the truth shall set us free.

Anonymous said...

Here in America, we draw on our abilities to go to great lengths to defend our favorite human icon/idol in the realm of Christianity.

Remembering my youth, growing up in church, I cannot honestly recall the name dropping from the pulpit that is so popular today, for the teacher preached Christ, taught His teachings, and modeled a life lived for Christ. I never heard the names of any great theologians, not even the "man-head" of our particular denomination, just the Scriptures. So I did not grow up in a name dropping church system and believe I missed out on nothing. I was not saved at that particular time as God drew me out years later fully realizing I needed to repent and believe on our LORD Jesus Christ. Alleluia!

By today's standards, when an individual chooses to not follow a man or woman as their head or shepherd as prescribed by some, then all out war takes place, and insults and false accusations are the order of the day. And the spiritual delight in this so!

Are we not free to follow Jesus Christ here in our nation....I mean really follow Christ, without the elevation of a man's name placed alongside of His? Who is really the Head of our growing faith, the Cornerstone, our Rock?

So, in closing, there is no reward in accusing, nor insulting, nor falsey assuming the faith of another when I can leave all of this at the foot of the Cross and allow God, the Holy Spirit, to minister, for He is our Helper and our Comforter.

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Som of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

1 John 5:13

We have this assurance of eternity spent with our LORD Jesus Christ when we believe in Him, alone.

And He hasn't given me the steel-toed boot yet to the best of my inadequate knowledge. Praise be to God!

Rick Frueh said...

This thread is now closed.