Exodus International was one of the oldest, if not the oldest, organization that helped gay people overcome their same sex attractions using a number of different "techniques". They began in 1976 under its founder Michael Bussee who later became one of its most outspoken critics. This week after its president offered gay people an apology for hurting people, Exodus International disbanded.
HERE IS THE STORY
Of course there will be the
expected knee jerk reactions from all the many and varied perspectives. Much of
the evangelical community will lambast the decision and the apology, while
organizations like GLAAD will applaud it as a step in the right direction. The
lines will be drawn and there will be overtures from moral outrage all the way
to moral inclusiveness and everywhere in between. But this issue deserves more
than just convenient stone throwing especially from those of us who know and
try to follow Jesus.
This should, this must, generate a
deeper discussion about the depth, the expanse, and the power of redemption.
Through prayer and an inspection of God’s Word that also is painfully honest
about ourselves, we should strive to have a voice which is covered with love
and grace without compromising God’s truth. But as usual we will hear the well
worn mantras which elicit the desired applause from the specific choir to which
you are preaching. I have begun another post, not about the gay issue, but about
Jesus, redemption, faith, and eternal life. At the foundation of everything is
this absolute truth: No one can find eternal life except through a personal
faith in Jesus Christ.
I hope to provide my continuing
perspective which reveals my love for Jesus and His eternal Word as well as my
compassion for those who have same sex attractions. I realize this is an area
that make many believers feel uncomfortable, however I sincerely believe that if
Jesus walked the earth today He would most certainly eat with sinners including
gay people. And I also believe He would be roundly criticized and condemned by
many in the Christian community for such behavior. You see, most professing
believers cannot see redemption as anything but carved in stone and that Jesus only
extends grace to those who need it in less quantities than people like gay
sinners.
"Jesus we ask for Your help and the Spirit's guidance in seeking the truth found only in You."
Oh that we could have an all night prayer vigil for the lost. I often hear the Lord saying to me "can't you even watch one hour with Me?" There is no social or man made program that can save a soul from going to hell. Only acceptance of God's grace. All we can do is stay on the watch and pray.
ReplyDeleteJoel
Amen, Joel.
ReplyDeleteThere is something deep underlying the culture of the United States.
ReplyDeleteI just was at another blog reading the views of an Irishman giving heartfelt praise for President Obama, his visit to Ireland, his speeches and his generous nature towards the plight those people in what they have been under these many years and then stand for Christ and deflect some harsh negative views from those from the United States, Christians no less!
Hmmmmmm
1) the unrighteous
2) the sexually immoral
3) idolaters
4) adulters
5) men who practice homosexuality
6) thieves
7) the greedy
8) drunkards
9) revilers
10) swindlers
None, not one of those listed will inherit the kingdom of God, NONE!!
Why it is so easily forgotten:::>
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV)
You would be a fool not to believe Jesus and His Ministers were, are and always will be called to labor to see many convert to Life from stricken fallen humanity and such as we are!
You would equally be a fool not to believe right now in Paradise are such from that list wearing Blood washed spotless Robes worshipping their Creator!
You would be a fool!
And that is exactly what we need to see. How many believers quote that verse in order to prove homosexual behavior is a sin but faith to identify greed and idolatry in their own lives? Yes, all sinners can be washed and still not be perfect - hence the word "grace".
ReplyDeleteI am not fit to be in the company of such wonderful men of God. I should be run out of this blog. I am a wretched selfish person, and I deserve nothing less but damnation. Only the small part of me still holding on cries out to the Lord not to forsake me even in my worst moments.
ReplyDeleteAs my eyes burn with the threat of tears, I a undone by the compassion I see on here and I am chocked up. As well as jealous that my faith is not like those here on this blog and has once again grown a bit cold. I am becoming the worst of my fears. A demanding schedule has caught me unawares and I am sad and feel like I cannot get back. People worry and complain about the stupidest things, me included.
As I watch my marriage slowly die I am overwhelmed with grief and I am not able to do anything about it. I had the audacity to ask the Lord if He wanted me to choose my health or my marriage, and I would like to have both. Is it so much to ask for a Godly man, and not to be sick? I guess it is because it seems like I am losing both.
I am grateful I was able to spend some time with my sons the last few days. It was such a treat. It used to be the three of us when they were growing up, and it was once again a moment like that.
Why am I writing this? Because as I read the posts, I feel convicted that I am struggling with my faith, holding onto what I have, and feel like I am lost and no one cares about the brothers and sisters in Christ who are hurting.
Gentlemen, Matthew 6:34
Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof
I am not without responsibility here, and I know that my feelings will have to be answered for, but what about the saints? If I am still one. When do we pray for each other? You are men, tell me please how a man can be so cold and cruel and say they have a relationship with the Lord? How is it I am evil, but he is good? If I am evil, what am I doing wrong?
So much evil one can hardly bear it. Gay sinners, straight sinners, all are sinners. What about the brethren? You have an opportunity to reach husbands and sons, to preach what is godly, what is truth, no matter their current sinful condition.
Cherie c.
Some days I can't read these posts and comments because I am so weary of it all. Joel mentioned an all night prayer meeting of sorts, but no one wants to take up the mantle and do it. I will, but I cannot do it on my own.
ReplyDeleteYour endeavors are godly, but you seem to forget those who are in need right here.
I don't care what anyone thinks of me. Even when I wasn't saved (not sure I still am)I could not lie about how I felt about things and it made me many enemies. My name is all over the internet and people can find what I write here on this blog and I don't care. What I care about is the salvation of the people I love and lately its many strangers included and I cannot bear the burden anymore.
I pray that you will prayerfully consider what I ask. You are men of the Church, the Bride of Christ. You were told what your commission was in the NT. All I ask as you fulfill this commission is that you remember the brethren, the women too. We need to be taught and cared about by our brothers in Christ especially when our husbands are not godly. Brothers we need, not substitute husbands, that is not what I mean. Brothers in Christ who care about all the members of the church as well as the lost. I know it is a lot to ask, but you are men of God.
If I am not kicked out of Grace, please let me know if there will be a prayer vigil, for anyone.
Gentlemen,
I learn from you so much it truly is a blessing, but mixed with your work on exposing the heresy and deception, remember your brothers and sisters. Especially the sisters because they have no one to lead them, us. The Bible does not say we are to lead ourselves. You are given a great responsibility within your own households, but in my searching of the Scriptures I have not found it anywhere that that responsibility is for only your own household.
James 1:27 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction......this could also mean spiritual as well as in the natural.
Hope I didn't offend any of you.
Cherie c.
Dear Cherie c, our sister in Christ.
ReplyDeleteI don't know all that you are going through but Jesus is with you even when He seems distant, and you can hardly hang on. But because of Him you can.He won't leave us.
Sometimes, everything can look so bleak but remember, John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
I feel for you, Cherie, and will remember you and your family to the Lord in prayer. Hang onto Jesus, dear sister.
In Jesus, your sister,
Lorena
Love you all here and Cherie, hang on!! Does anyone feel like we are hanging on a rope from the back end of an airborne jet airplane and there's one knot and it's slipping.
ReplyDeleteI know life is hard in any century or decade, but these past few years, we don't only have the usual trials and tribulations that follow us, but we now have the added trials of trying to find our place among other so-called christians. I never would have believed when I was new a born-again christian that I would hear churched spokesmen say the kinds of things they are saying today, while drawing lines in the sand about the U.S,'s moral compass - drawing lines and declaring them to unbelievers, already! They aren't searching to find those who are hungry and thirsty for God, and spending time with them answering questions. They're publicly accusing unbelievers, who don't yet know what their sin is, and practically giving them public trials. They seem to want to incite angry christian mobs against unbelievers.
The obsession with people's sexual preference is perverse in itself and christians seem to relish judging people and taking on the role of God, where they want to see vengeance. Meanwhile the sheep are straying and being ignored.
Certain christian leaders and media charmers obviously have too much time on their hands and don't feel like the Lord's sheep are valuable enough to tend to them. They are so obsessed with the world's behavior - as though sin has just now reared it's ugly head. But the great commission wasn't to search for sinners and then castigate them, and mock them, and use them as political scapegoats or to declare war on them. The fake church has declared war on the homosexual community and I expect soon they'll be turning their attention on other groups. Soon, they could start verbal warfare on those who oppose carrying weapons. Or they might resent christians who defend the defenseless. Sometimes I don't really believe these outraged christians really care about the homosexual issue; I sometimes believe they have a deeper motive and it's just about hating those who support the homosexual community. They do not want to be under the rule of a tolerant secular government; and this secular government has given hope to the African-American people, who used to be the tail, and never the head, because they had to endure slavery under the brutal white masters, and God has seen fit to allow one of them to become the head, to show the world that He is in control, and that He positions who He wants seated in government, and that He has heard the cries of his African-American children, yet the fake church rebels. They are like Pharaoh and would rather the Lord NOT let His people go. I believe they would rebel if a Native American were to be seated as President also. They've been blinded by their bigotry and their priority is not their Saviour, Jesus.
I know that some christians who blog, like here, are trying to pull as many out of the fire from this fake christianity as they can. This is part of the great commission. Unfortunately, these fake christians are luring multitudes down the wrong path and turning them into hypocritical moral police also. They are robbing the true shepherds of time to commit to the sheep and to the lost. How long will it take for multitudes to have the scales removed from their eyes?
It's a shameful display of christians rejecting their Lord and Saviour, by reducing Jesus sacrifice and death to a mere political ploy. Lord have mercy.
J.
Cherie, LORD Jesus is calm. The more quality time you spend with Him and His Word the more calmness you will experience.
ReplyDeleteLet holy God comfort you. Learn a new song of praise to praise Him and let thankfulness, praise and adoration for the LORD be your first focus, for He truly loves you.
Reine Gnade
Reine, J, thanks for your support, it means so much. I just get weary sometimes about all this. Trying to navigate through the world with all that is going on, life in general, hard to take it all in. You feel helpless to do anything, like nothing you can do is effective or good enough. My heart breaks for so many in and out of my family. You hear about things like this post, and trying to be all the Word says we should only to fail, I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI know that I need to pray, read the Word, I do that too, far to little in my mind, but sometimes it seems not to work. There seems to be a silence.
I really love when the Lord puts a desire in my heart to seek Him for someone. But I still have to deal with everything else. I hate this world and at times I'm impatient for the Lord to return, and then there are times when I think if He tarries, more can be saved including my husband and sons, and the other unsaved people I know. As I walk with the Lord I still have to deal with all that is around me, it is hard to bear. When you're filled with love and compassion for someone even when they hate you, believe it or not even though it may hurt your feelings, there is still hope to withstand the arrows. That kind of strength only comes from God, I'm convinced! But when the treatment is almost constant and you see that person bestow love, affection, concern and kindness to everyone and everything but you, it can make the strongest, faithful child of God weak in the knees. Then you hear, read, and see on tv the cruelty in the world, well, its crushing because your flesh wants you to concentrate on yourself and your spirit and the Holy Spirit wants you to focus on the Lord, especially for others, and it is a struggle to put that down. And like I said earlier, I am a wretched and selfish person because I succumb to my flesh. It tells me I can't take it anymore and sometimes my spirit says the same thing. I look for relief from the sadness of this world, my life, and the others I love. The arrows truly fly when you are born again, right at you and at times nonstop. Then I see the godly brothers and sisters here, and I am ashamed. Can't seem to get it right. I am calm about these things in my demeanor, but I am sad about them too. I forget myself sometimes and wonder what is wrong with people fully knowing the answer to that question; sin.
I know I have to go before the Lord with this and I am sure its nothing He hasn't heard before, I'm just sad I disappointed Him.....again. I know I should be stronger, but some days it is tough. That is why the brethren needs to be the support system to each other. And we need godly men to lead. It is here that we get that shepherding. Only, I pray it could be a bit more, but I also know there are pressing matters that need to be addressed too.
Love to you all.
your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.
One thing I am learning since my surgery is..."One minute at a time...one day at a time." I can't look beyond today. I see and hear all the bad things in the news and when my mind and my body can't come together at once, the enemy uses it to try to steal my testimony, kill my faith and destroy me.
ReplyDeleteWe cannot allow our minds to live within the scope of this small world. We must set our minds on the high calling of God and concentrate on living as He would have us do one minute at a time.
As I do this, I pray constantly; sometimes for my family, sometimes for myself, and then I take each person's name who comes up in my mind and ask God to give me His mind and let me pray in the way that He wants me to pray for that person and not for how I think I should pray for the person. I ask Him for his mind and his will for that person and then I pray. That is what I am about at this late date and hour in humanity.
If we look at prophecy in the Old Testament in regards to the people of Syria. They are a people with whom the Lord has unfinished business. They will be used for His purposes during these last days. I do not believe in war, but unfortunately, the fate of people in the Middle East was written long ago. I pray for God's mercy on the innocent people there and His justice on those who are committed to evil.
I told the story of my daughter who claims to be gay on a post a couple of months ago. I know many young gay women. I pray for God to have mercy and grace and to use me or another member of the body to show them His compassion and love and and yet if you don't go far enough by telling them that,as Michael says, that people who practice unnatural things will not
inherit the kingdom of God, how then can you win them? You cannot. God must do it. The Word tells us that God calls us to draw near to Him. So, unless God does a work within their heart, it will not be enough.
ReplyDeleteWe are not using His power enough. We are not praying enough. We are not expecting Him to work miracles. We must start living the life of Christ by depending upon God for strength, knowledge, wisdom, opportunity and be committed to do as He leads us in each and every situation.
I hope I have correctly communicated my thoughts and hope that God gives you understanding of what I mean. He is the answer to all of our questions. We must draw upon the power of the holy spirit for wisdom on how to convey the answer to the populace.
Kim
Cherie,
ReplyDeleteI asked the Lord how to pray for you today and I feel in my spirit that I have the right thing in mind. I will lift you, your husband and sons to Him today.
Kim
ReplyDeleteDon't be sad, Cherie, for God loves those who love Him. Do you recall daily that He loves you steadfastly? Do you remember that He died on a cross, so that you could experience a new life with Him without pulling yourself to threads?
Be more gentle on yourself, for you are doing your best.
Reine Gnade
Another throught just occurred to me; Though some of us might feel stuck and glued and there's no hope or there's no joy, it's still there. I remember attenting a church, as a guest, where I knews many of the people there. It was a bible belieiving church that stayed on the Word and wasn't beset with man's decrees. Maybe it didn't have as much 'order' as one would like, but still, that is where I was touched with the joy of the Lord. Of course I've been in my home too, but this was different, and I actually felt like I had to be in a heavenly place, because the joy was so real and powerful, and it was all done in and for the beatuful Name of Jesus. I was so full of heartfelt joy I can't explain it.
ReplyDeleteThere are times when the Lord gathers us with other christians and reminds us He is in charge and blesses us with the manifestations of His love. We can never minimize that. It's real and it fills our spirits with strength and a refreshing so we can continue walking in this hellish world.
I guess what I experienced was 'joy unspeakable and full of glory' and I wish we all could get to that place again, if you have not already. And if some have, please, if Bro. Rick allows, to share with us, so we could be lead to that place again (LOL). We are in desperate times and need to desperately be refreshed with His Holy Spirit in these wicked days.
I think this little blog has so many gems and pearls in each contributor who writes here, and they are afraid to share these spiritual gems, lest they appear whacky. I guess I'll be the first and say, yes, I was whacky for the Lord. A fool for Christ!! And, for me, the only way I can endure the world, and what's happening in the apostate churches, is to seek the joy of the Lord, which is our strength.
And I'll be the first to say my good Bro. in Christ, Rick, has been chosen for such a time as this, and he needs our prayers for Him everyday that He can overcome the pressure of the world, with the Lord's special joy and comfort. Amen.
J.
Kim, what you wrote is so true. Minute by minute. We don't know what the future holds. Every moment is precious. And I agree with you, we don't see His power enough, in these fields full of weeds. We are almost choked by the weeds, but the Lord won't allow us to choke.
ReplyDeleteI am convinced that despite how bad it looks out there, like the Word says, that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ and that includes gays. Any christian who's been redeemed, forgiven and saved should never be a stumbling-block to those who would want Jesus as their Saviour.
J.
Some verses to ponder:
ReplyDeleteGod is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. (Psalms 46:1 ESV)
Here in Psalm 46 we learn God is WITH US in the trouble!
That being noted, think about these words from Psalm 33:
The Lord looks down from heaven; he sees all the children of man; from where he sits enthroned he looks out on all the inhabitants of the earth, he who fashions the hearts of them all and observes all their deeds. (Psalms 33:13-15 ESV)
God is not far away in some distant land! No, He's right here looking at you, overseeing your troubled soul too!
And I suppose it goes without saying but I'll say it anyway "you know these things to be so":::>
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. (James 1:2-4 ESV)
Dear Cherie C.
ReplyDeleteI read your response last night and the Lord convicted me and I could not sleep until I prayed for you and your husband and sons. Please forgive me for not remembering to bear one another's burdens.
Dear Father in Heaven please give us the urging through Your Spirit to to lift up in prayer the ones that are hurting physically and the ones that are distressed in their soul. Lord I cry out Abba Father for Cherie that you heal her body, releive her of the pain and place her in Your hand and give her rest. Lord I ask that You give us the urging through Your Spirit to stand up and be true watchmen of Your flock here. We are here in the name of Jesus. Be with us Lord. Lord we especially ask that You convict the hearts of Cherie's husband and her sons, to turn to You for their salvation. I ask this in the name of Jesus.
Cherie I have placed you, for your health, your husband and your sons for their salvation, on my prayer list. I will not forget to ask the Lord to keep a hedge of protection around you.
Joel
For all the men here, when Jesus asked that we watch and pray for at least an hour, that is not a suggestion, it is a command. When it was written that we bear one anothers burdens, it is not a suggestion, it is a command. I am one that has not always followed those commands, but I am still learning, and I keep asking for the Lord to guide me and teach me.
ReplyDeleteJoel
I am convinced that despite how bad it looks out there, like the Word says, that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ and that includes gays.
ReplyDeleteChrist is love.
Homosexuals don't have an intimate relationship with Christ! Homosexuals are as yet unsaved. If they persist in their stubborn rebellion. Jesus will say to them on Judgment Day that He never knew them. What must a homosexual or l esbian do?
They must acknowledge that they need cleansing from homosexuality or lesbianism. They need to pray to the God of the holy Bible to shepherd them out of their God dishonouring lifestyles.
Jesus longs to rescue homosexuals and lesbians and give them a new life in Him but they must be first willing to listen to Him and then trust and obey Him.
Dear Brother Joel,
ReplyDeleteI did not mean to cause you distress, and I am sorry you lost sleep. Thankful to the Lord you're my brother in Christ and that you care for the brethren. I too lift you and all brothers and sisters to our Abba, Father in Lord Jesus' name.
Thank you for a godly love only able through the Holy Spirit. Please forgive me if I caused you any pain. May God, this day and every day bless and strengthen you as we all increase in the knowledge of Him. Thank you for being a godly man leading along with Pastor the Lord's sheep. We need a prayer vigil just like you suggested. I would travel to meet other brothers and sisters here. No Pastor, not a conference, a prayer vigil. If it can be done, let me know how I can help get it done. Praise, Glory and Honor to our Father God and His Son, Jesus Christ our LORD and Savior. Love you brother Joel.
your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c,
Dear Kim,
ReplyDeleteMy life is truly blessed kniwing a strong sister like you. I'm so full of joy at your recovery. The courage, faith and love you exhibited during your ordeal is inspiring, and Rita is a joy.
God bless you dear sister, love you much. Hope talk to you soon.
your sister in Christ Jesus,
Cherie c.
Anon. 7:52 - Sinners who don't repent can't have an intimate relationship with Christ, that's true. But are you a sinner? Am I a sinner? We still sin and may sin tomorrow, God forbid. I know that we are convicted of our sin through the Holy Spirit. But, our intimate relationship only happens as we grow and mature and yield and turn around. Sometimes that takes a long time. It's easy for me to repent of my sins. But it's not so easy for a child who feels these unnatural feelings and can't flush them out. We, who don't experience this, can't imagine how lonely and isolated these people feel. All I know is that the Lord knows every hair on their head and knows what they are suffering and we have to have mercy. And having mercy means not reading them scripture that reminds them of how God views their sin. God hates all sin, and an abomination or a thing God hates, is a haughty look. It's easier to repent from a haughty look that stop a confusing unnatural desire; I am so thankful I didn't have to carry that cross.
ReplyDeleteWhat would any of us do if the Lord chooses not to change an unnatural attraction? What if the Lord does nothing to stop it? I am certain that if these people had been asked in their teen years if they could feel "normal" like their peers, they would have given their right arm to be like others. No child wants to be different. Everyone wants to fit in. Why would someone just decide they wanted to irritate their parents and family and choose to go against the grain. For many, I believe they feel they never had a choice. It's one of the most complex problems we in the church seem to be facing.
The sin I see that is so sickening today is the constant dose of sex on TV and screen. The West profits in the billions in the entertainment, porn industries and we nary a blink. Every magazine and newspaper has hundreds of images depicting women as sex objects. Crickets from christians.
So, it's interesting how christians never suggest these people who build the fashion industry or who pose, model, act, in indecent fashion, can't have an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. I remember a young christian women in a pageant who spoke out her convictions on homosexuality and was dubbed a Joan of Arc, yet she paraded in a scantily-clad bikini and later was found to have posed nude. She had an inappropriate relationship with her boyfriend at the same time she had authored a book about her christianity. And if she repented, God is faithful to forgive. However, I never once heard any christian dare say she did not have an intimate relationship with the Lord.
With so many gays coming out of the closet today, the church has decided it's going to toss those who don't fit into their nice pretty packages to the dogs. They will not give any gay person a chance to believe that God does love them, and can meet them halfway and sometimes all the way. Once they are in His care, nothing is impossible.
Sometimes I think the Lord allows the uncloseting of gays in the west to happen now; the church is being tested and it's not passing the test.
I still stand that there are homosexuals out there who desire an intimate relationship with Jesus. It would be up to them how they handle their situation. But it's not up to us to question what they do with their desires. Instead of reading them their biblical punishments, we could just pray. I've yet to hear a gay-hater read corrupt leaders or adulterers their biblical punishments and proclaim they can NEVER had an intimate relationship with the Lord.
J.
Once a homosexual or lesbian is born again they are no longer a homosexual or a lesbian but a true believer in Jesus. They then have a totally new life and an honorable future.
ReplyDeleteMany people falsely believe that they can be a homosexual or a lesbian and a Christian at the same time.
How do you and I show mercy to someone who is displeasing the LORD? We must above all introduce them to Jesus in whom God is pleased. When any slave of Satan truly desires to trust and obey Jesus, God will surely keep on encouraging and empowering them to do so.
Reine Gnade
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast reiected knowledge, I will also reiect thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I wil also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that sinners are destroyed for lack of knowledge. They need to come to Jesus, the gracious giver of wisdom.
Josef Sefton