I Need an Answer
I am asking anyone who reads this to present me with Scriptural evidence that shows either in principle or open commandment where the New Testament speaks of God's endorsement of violently overthrowing the government over taxes. Over freedom? Over religious freedom?
Why am I asking this? Because we as Christians who live in America have somehow become convinced that God directed the birth of America and that we were born as a Christian nation. God nurtured the part of His body which dwelt in this nation, but it has never been a Christian nation. There is no such thing and it actually mixes the sacred (church) with the profane (government). God birthed the notion of earthly government, and everything exists beneath His august sovereignty, but the glorious body of Christ should never be joined to any government or nation. And even in Christian schools they display paintings of men like Jefferson who was a blasphemer because they combine Americanism with Christianity.
And the next time you go to church, if your church displays the American flag outside (most do inside), ask your pastor why the American flag must be displayed over top of the Christian flag. And if you see that display, ask God how He feels about it. And since your church displays the American flag inside God's meeting place, write your represenatative and ask him or her if Congress or the White House displays the Christian flag. Are you beginning to see what has happened? The church whose citizenship is in heaven displays the American flag, but the so called "Christian" nation won't even display the Christian flag. Don't worry, God isn't impressed with flags one way or the other, He desires our hearts.
The idol of democracy has overtaken our hearts, and when the Palestinians vote in Hamas we then reject that democratic act. Democracy was birthed by the humanistic Greeks, and it turns the ruling over to the pluralistic citizens to rule themselves with their hedonistic needs as their major pursuit. We are not the government, and we are not a democracy. We are a monarchy and our King is Jesus the Christ. Separate and different, a peculiar people whose allegiance is all to our Sovereign, not to be divided among the things of this world.
And so now the idol called the Republican party has put forth adulterers and murderers as leaders of their party. Are you now convinced that America and her politicians care nothing for our Master? How is it that so many are still blind even when infidels rub shoulders with those who we exalt as conservatives, whatever that is. Let us nor care about conservatives, let us care about Bible believers whose platform are their knees, their constitution the Bible, their election from on High, and their voting booth the prayer closet.
Revival is what we need, a million elections will not solve one eternal problem. So again, someone provide me with Scriptural exhortation that allows us to kill those in governmental authority when we disagree with anything, much less taxes. And if you find such teaching, let us send guns to our Chinese brothers and sisters, their own "Boston Tea Party" is way overdue!
I'm waiting...
Rick,
ReplyDeleteYou are right. There is no direction to any of that. Those who think otherwise are deceived.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Amen Rick!
ReplyDeleteI am amazed at people who claim we are a Christian nation. I was amazed when my church, for a Veteran's Day celebration hung the flag over the cross behind the pulpit...yes, over the cross...and left it there for at least 2 weeks. Yes, I know that God does not care if you hang a flag, or even have a cross...but to me this does speak volumes about where the heart is. But of course I have been told that I am just a legalist.
Thanks for a great post!
Sherry
Rick,
ReplyDeleteI agree with much of what you said. We are called to obey, submit to and pray for those in authority. The only time for "civil disobedience" is when the laws of our heavenly citizenship directly contradict the laws of our earthly abode --- "We must obey God rather than men." If a time came when I was not free to proclaim the gospel (and that time is coming with hate crimes laws being passed right and left), it would not be my responsibility to overthrow the government, but rather to keep preaching. That's what Paul did.
Dave
http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com
Calvin said that obedience to bad government is required. Here's something to chew on, just for fun: what if the founding documents of a particular government invite the people to overthrow it if it becomes tyrannical?
ReplyDeleteJJ Stellman posts on this a lot. I think we can petition our government to do its job better, but violent overthrow is forbidden. That being said, after reading Washington's prayer journal, I'm pretty sure he's now in heaven.
Rick,
ReplyDeleteYou are starting to sound like me and my friends! LOL!
I might say we are not nor ever were a "Christian" nation... we might have been greatly influenced by Christianity... but many of the founding fathers were not Christian... and in fact thought it nonsensicle as in the case of Ben Franklin.
The real issue then is how does a Christian live in America serving the Kingdom of God and still vote without condoning the outrageous sin that is in our own gov't.
I laugh at many who think that the republican party is the one Christians would choose... mostly because i think we have been duped by them... at least the Dems are transparent in their stupidity...
yet again... if both are evil... and we must choose between the lesser of the two evils... are we still choosing evil?
I don't know the answer... other than each person must make the choice the best they can as they serve Jesus... and realize the the Gov't is in the Lords hands. So i do my best to be a good citizen and trust God to sort out the political mess.
Blessings,
iggy
Wow! I just stumbled across this blog, via LAF and another site...kinda did a jump or two. Anywho...I've never heard it all put like this before but WOW does that all makes sense! You're so very right and I'd just never thought about it, while blindly following the 'typical' regarding this.
ReplyDeleteRick,
ReplyDeleteI think most people see our "birth" as a nation under God as being related to the Pilgrims who fled the religious persecution in England and the mandated Anglican Church membership. That act has little to nothing to do with a forced overthrow of a government except as the original catalyst for the migration of individuals to the "New World."
As for the US flag over the Christian flag, for one, US law mandates no other flag may fly above the US flag. As God commands us to obey the laws of our government, I don't see this an issue.
Addressing your point on political parties: Wherever there is power in this world, you will find evil. There are good and bad aspects of both parties in our government. And you will find good, strong Christian men and women on both sides of the political lines. That is why we, as good stewards of our resources that God has given us, must look at each individual running for public office and attempt to judge who will do the best job, not who belongs to which political party.
You hold out the Republican party as putting forth adulterers and murders as leaders, yet God did this same thing. Paul was one of the greatest killers of Christians in the early days. God touched him, renamed him (from Saul to Paul), and used him as one of the greatest Christian leaders of those times.
God can use our enemies as well as ourselves to do His work.
The rejection of Hamas in the Palestinian election was not immediate nor was it unwarranted. The US gave Hamas a chance to stop their support of terrorists. If the news reports can be believed (which is always a concern), Hamas continued to support and encourage terrorists. So, the US took steps to try and undermine a democratically elected, terror-sponsoring government.
I agree, Rick, that we need a revival in our land, but I don't wish to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Even God's chosen people who he led out of Egypt had difficulties following his teachings.
The US is still the best country in the world, and allows us the most freedoms. And, for that, I thank God that I was born here and not somewhere else in the world.
The area I struggle with is Jesus said to forgive someone 7 x 77 times. Meaning infinity x infinity (as 7 and 77 are were considered perfect numbers at the time). If that is the case, when are Christians ever to take up arms against their oppressors?
As a strong Christian and a strong patriot (in terms of my love of country), I struggle with this.
Can anyone help me on this one?
"If that is the case, when are Christians ever to take up arms against their oppressors?"
ReplyDeleteNever. Those carnal weapons are not for us.
Good points Pr. Freuh.
ReplyDeleteAs far as "Revival is what we need". I say that Revival is what we already have.
We need to embrace what we already have. Christ's birth and sacrifice for us.
Beyond that, what else really matters?